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Re: the worst night of my life [message #1096892 is a reply to message #1096706 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Neisje  is currently offline Neisje  
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tisse wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 10:26

for any one interested in sand colic, its causes and the best cures i recommend John O'leary website horseproblems.com.

he is a no non-sense horseperson who uses common sense as his basis for owning horses, which to me, is one of the first things needed when owning one. if you dont have common sense i think are doomed from the start.

here is a link to his info on sand colic

http://www.horseproblems.com.au/sand_colic_by.htm


Sorry but I have MAJOR issues with this guy's recipe. Firstly he charges for a recipe that is NOT his, its an old bushmans recipe, ask any older vet and they will probably know it, they will also tell you that it killed as many horses as it fixed. It contains milk or cream (depending on which version of the recipe you use) and dairy is NOT suitable for horses, they do not digest it, it basically causes an upset stomach and flushes the guts out. One vet explained it to me as you are basically giving the horse a bout of gastro. Now think of yourself with gasto, yup everything will get passed out of your system, but how sick do you feel until its all over? I know some people do use it and like it, so please don't start a war over it, I am giving my opinion only, but as a vet nurse and as someone who has talked to several vets about this recipe, I would not give it to my horse EVER!

Neisje


Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders & says...
'Oh ****...she's awake!!'
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1096894 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  FD11  
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Glad your pony is ok Tisse.

You could try to find a hay feeder that has a catcher for the dropped stuff - might reduce a bit of the stuff that they spill? I have seen them whilst I was googling for a hay feeder for my yard Smile
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1096907 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  MiggyB  
Messages: 797
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Level 1 - Advanced
tisse wrote on Mon, 13 April 2009 20:49

well i just experienced the worst night of my life last night, around 6pm i went our to our agistment to feed our ponies and found my baby JJ, sitting down eating his hay. not a usual sight.

i called him and he got up and came over, again when food is around coming when called is not his thing.

a few days back i did think his tummy looked potty but assumemed that he may just be getting that dreaded hay belly, how wrong was i.

this is my first (and i hope last) experience with colic. i walked, dragged, sat on and cried with my baby from 6pm to 6am last night thinking the whole time he is going die on me. but finally after two oil drenchings and two shots of a muscle relaxant at roughly 5am he finally started poop, it was more sand than anything else, then he sprayed the yuckiest poop stuff i have ever seen.

today he is happy pooping sand and eating hay, but i have never been so scared in my life that i was going to have to bury him today.

i feel like i have gone 10 rounds with mike tyson (having to restle and sit on him when he went down and wanted to roll) but at the same time am so proud of myself because i know if i hadnt of spent the night with him he would of died.

i love my little mini man JJ, and the bond we have now is even stronger that it was before.

I SAVED HIS LIFE AND ITS THE BEST FEELING IN THE WORLD

this is my little man with my daughter

index.php?t=getfile&id=193408&private=0




Im glad that your pony is ok and I dont mean to be rude but the photo you have posted shows what appears to be hay directly on sand- if you want to prevent sand colic I suggest that you buy a hay net with small holes and feed off the ground (plus it slows how fast they can eats the hay).
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1096997 is a reply to message #1096892 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  MissMaddy  
Messages: 2776
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Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
Neisje wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 11:28

tisse wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 10:26

for any one interested in sand colic, its causes and the best cures i recommend John O'leary website horseproblems.com.

he is a no non-sense horseperson who uses common sense as his basis for owning horses, which to me, is one of the first things needed when owning one. if you dont have common sense i think are doomed from the start.

here is a link to his info on sand colic

http://www.horseproblems.com.au/sand_colic_by.htm


Sorry but I have MAJOR issues with this guy's recipe. Firstly he charges for a recipe that is NOT his, its an old bushmans recipe, ask any older vet and they will probably know it, they will also tell you that it killed as many horses as it fixed. It contains milk or cream (depending on which version of the recipe you use) and dairy is NOT suitable for horses, they do not digest it, it basically causes an upset stomach and flushes the guts out. One vet explained it to me as you are basically giving the horse a bout of gastro. Now think of yourself with gasto, yup everything will get passed out of your system, but how sick do you feel until its all over? I know some people do use it and like it, so please don't start a war over it, I am giving my opinion only, but as a vet nurse and as someone who has talked to several vets about this recipe, I would not give it to my horse EVER!

Neisje


That's interesting that you say that. I have the recipe (I bought it off him), and had planned on using it on my 2 mares who are absolute pigs (one of whom coliced last year despite having lots of grass and a round bale). Both my girls are in foal (one 3 months, one about 5 months), so I was very hesitant about using it on them as I know with pregnant women laxatives or anything that irritates the gut is not good. Glad I haven't used it on them, but would still like to know they don't have sand in their guts.
Glad your pony is ok tisse. I stayed up with my girl last year when she coliced. She was actually very good about the whole thing. Her heart rate and respiration rate showed she was in a lot of pain, but she was so stoic. She was lying down in her paddock initially, but never attempted to roll.
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1097012 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Hacker  
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So glad he pulled through ok! How terrifying for you. Hopefully you don't have to go through that again.
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1097216 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  pinky
Messages: 2921
Registered: September 2008
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
Colic is a scary experience, one i never want to have to deal with again - but you never know.

I have had 2 horses colic, first was from eating barley hay for the first time, bit of a tummy upset, 2nd was when my mare got through the elec fence into a grassy area and gorged on rich grass, found her cast upside down in the stable, had i not heard the thrashing, she'd have died over night. she was having a wild bout of spasmodic colic. I was also 8 months pregnant myself - not a fun night.

sometimes is not avoidable. But, there are a lot of small things we can do to try to prevent it aswell.

I have fed physillium husks monthly for years now, not on the dot - but roughly for one week each month, they are fed it.

You can get it from your feed store, i think horseland etc sell it? In 1kg bags, You can get it from health food stores for people, even chemists. Its the same stuff. If you cannot find anyone who sells it, 1000 places sell it online, so there is never a reason not to be able to get your hands on some. I think its an idea to have it on the shelf, when your getting low, buy some more, rather than wait until you need it to hunt for it.

Every time i read a colic related threads, i want to rush out and feed mine physillium husks..

Im glad you saved him.


And one rule of thumb i didn't know when my mare was colicing and i made the mistake of doing, NEVER over walk them. You dont have to be walking them all the time to stop the bowel twisting, if you over walk them, you can exhaust them and they will not have the strength to fight. I think my vet said walk for 10-15 mins then leave them, and if they try to drop, a brief walk then just keep them up.

Re: the worst night of my life [message #1097380 is a reply to message #1096706 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  CRUZE  is currently offline CRUZE  
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tisse wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 10:26

for any one interested in sand colic, its causes and the best cures i recommend John O'leary website horseproblems.com.

he is a no non-sense horseperson who uses common sense as his basis for owning horses, which to me, is one of the first things needed when owning one. if you dont have common sense i think are doomed from the start.

here is a link to his info on sand colic

http://www.horseproblems.com.au/sand_colic_by.htm


Ive used his sand colic remedy as well, Its messy but Brilliant

My stallion has a round bale at all times hes also hard fed.. But he STILL rummages through the dirt to find a blade of grass or a weed Rolls Eyes ... Though we think he MUST have a iron stomach, he broke in to the chook shed a few months ago and ate a whole 25 kilo bag of chook pellets Rolls Eyes ..


"Its just another bucket"
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1097406 is a reply to message #1097380 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Miss Inferno  
Messages: 120
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CRUZE wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 15:15

tisse wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 10:26

for any one interested in sand colic, its causes and the best cures i recommend John O'leary website horseproblems.com.

he is a no non-sense horseperson who uses common sense as his basis for owning horses, which to me, is one of the first things needed when owning one. if you dont have common sense i think are doomed from the start.

here is a link to his info on sand colic

http://www.horseproblems.com.au/sand_colic_by.htm


Ive used his sand colic remedy as well, Its messy but Brilliant

My stallion has a round bale at all times hes also hard fed.. But he STILL rummages through the dirt to find a blade of grass or a weed Rolls Eyes ... Though we think he MUST have a iron stomach, he broke in to the chook shed a few months ago and ate a whole 25 kilo bag of chook pellets Rolls Eyes ..



Just out of curiosity, did you use it when he had sand colic or as a preventative?????


Re: the worst night of my life [message #1097422 is a reply to message #1097406 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  CRUZE  is currently offline CRUZE  
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Miss Inferno wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 15:24

CRUZE wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 15:15

tisse wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 10:26

for any one interested in sand colic, its causes and the best cures i recommend John O'leary website horseproblems.com.

he is a no non-sense horseperson who uses common sense as his basis for owning horses, which to me, is one of the first things needed when owning one. if you dont have common sense i think are doomed from the start.

here is a link to his info on sand colic

http://www.horseproblems.com.au/sand_colic_by.htm


Ive used his sand colic remedy as well, Its messy but Brilliant

My stallion has a round bale at all times hes also hard fed.. But he STILL rummages through the dirt to find a blade of grass or a weed Rolls Eyes ... Though we think he MUST have a iron stomach, he broke in to the chook shed a few months ago and ate a whole 25 kilo bag of chook pellets Rolls Eyes ..



Just out of curiosity, did you use it when he had sand colic or as a preventative?????





Ive used as a preventative, The sand and stuff that comes out the other end Shocked I prefer it to the husks but as I said its messy so we use about once a year, and I feed the stallion Husks monthly for a couple of days.
Ive known others though that have used it during the colic stage sucessfully.

[Updated on: Tue, 14 April 2009 15:33]


"Its just another bucket"
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098127 is a reply to message #1097422 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 20:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  tisse  
Messages: 428
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i understand you are all entitled to have your own opinion about all this, but the only reason i shared my story in the first place was because if any one would relate i thought most of you guys would. the whole point of my post was the emotional time i went through and the strength i had to find to pull my little guy through, not to be judged and dictated to about why this happened, how i should i been feeding husks and feeding hay off the ground being a no-no.

i made a mistake, i am the first to admit it, i am only human after all.

yes he must of been digesting sand, why else would he have sand colic. but unless i am watching him 24/7 ( which is impossible) i do and did the best i could.

the phyical and emotional stress i went though was horrid, i am already an exhusted mum of four young kids, but as we do, i found the energy to put him first, something alot of people cant do. i am proud of myself for saving his life, yes i may of contributed to this happening in the first place but as i have said earlier i did what needed to be done, i never complained, i just did it.

anyway, enough rambling. for those of you who generally care about how JJ is, i am pleased to say he is fine. he is eating lots of hay, drinking heaps of water and most of all pooping lots too.

Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098223 is a reply to message #1095971 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Shaz  
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martina wrote on Mon, 13 April 2009 20:56

Saved his life ?! Rolls Eyes Well , good on yaa ..... but how could it come to this in the first place ?!
Sorry , might not get the full story here , but you only get sand colic if there is nothing else to eat ?! Right ?
I can see it happen any day at my agistment place to the ponies next to my paddock. They do get fed , but only once a day and there is nothing , but NOTHING Shocked in that paddock and I do see them digging for roots and eating sand all the time !!
Basically waiting for them to get sand colic any day. Please do tell me if there is any other way a horse can get sand colic if there is ?! Thanks
Cheers MARTINA


Jesus Martina, pull your friggin head in! Evil or Very Mad
How the hell can you tell what this person's situation is by reading her post? Twisted Evil
But then again you know friggin everything don't you! Twisted Evil
You insensitive cow!


Tisse I am so glad you had a happy outcome. Colic is a terrible thing. I lost my boy two months ago to colic. Not sand colic, but compaction colic. It is horrendous.

As far as stopping your horse/pony eating sand, how the hell can anyone make sure this does not happen, especially in a drought.
You can't.
They are going to forage for new shoots of grass no matter how much hay you feed them.
I also fed husks on a regular basis, but sometimes it is nothing that you have or have not done.
Horses are very sensitive creatures and their gut is not designed very well. Sometimes there is nothing you can do.

Glad your little cutie is ok now.

cheers
shaz







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Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098302 is a reply to message #1098223 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  obsessed  
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Some of this info is an absolute crock of $hit........... Sad

My horse 14 days out from DWTS contracted sand colic...... Sad

And yes I put his hay on the ground.

Just wondering how I lift the short grass off the ground to prevent him grazing it...... Laughing


It is very common at this time of year and due to no rain and very little feed......


Ratbag.
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098305 is a reply to message #1098127 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 21:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  obsessed  
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tisse wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 20:31

i understand you are all entitled to have your own opinion about all this, but the only reason i shared my story in the first place was because if any one would relate i thought most of you guys would. the whole point of my post was the emotional time i went through and the strength i had to find to pull my little guy through, not to be judged and dictated to about why this happened, how i should i been feeding husks and feeding hay off the ground being a no-no.

i made a mistake, i am the first to admit it, i am only human after all.
yes he must of been digesting sand, why else would he have sand colic. but unless i am watching him 24/7 ( which is impossible) i do and did the best i could.

the phyical and emotional stress i went though was horrid, i am already an exhusted mum of four young kids, but as we do, i found the energy to put him first, something alot of people cant do. i am proud of myself for saving his life, yes i may of contributed to this happening in the first place but as i have said earlier i did what needed to be done, i never complained, i just did it.

anyway, enough rambling. for those of you who generally care about how JJ is, i am pleased to say he is fine. he is eating lots of hay, drinking heaps of water and most of all pooping lots too.





WHAT MISTAKE DID YOU MAKE.....


Ratbag.
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098315 is a reply to message #1098305 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Shaz  
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she made no mistake.






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Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098345 is a reply to message #1098315 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Cold Creek  
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exactly
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098386 is a reply to message #1098315 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 21:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  zam zam  
Messages: 12867
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Shaz wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 21:34

she made no mistake.


No, she made no mistake, colic happens Crying or Very Sad
But out of all this she may have helped others.
Bet all of us that read this looked at our paddocks and horses a little more closely today.
Made a few others aware that its happening at the moment.
That a good thing. Smile


zam zam xx


If it sparkles or its fluffy its all good.
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098407 is a reply to message #1095971 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  harry  is currently offline harry
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martina wrote on Mon, 13 April 2009 20:56

Saved his life ?! Rolls Eyes Well , good on yaa ..... but how could it come to this in the first place ?!
Sorry , might not get the full story here , but you only get sand colic if there is nothing else to eat ?! Right ?
I can see it happen any day at my agistment place to the ponies next to my paddock. They do get fed , but only once a day and there is nothing , but NOTHING Shocked in that paddock and I do see them digging for roots and eating sand all the time !!
Basically waiting for them to get sand colic any day. Please do tell me if there is any other way a horse can get sand colic if there is ?! Thanks
Cheers MARTINA

LETS JUST REPLAY MARTINA'S CAREFULLY THOUGHT OUT RESPONSE AGAIN, ABOVE, IN CASE ANYONE MISSED IT.

I lived in Darwin for many years. (Something I believe even you can't claim M.) Sand colic is prevalant there, managed as best as possible, but still unavoidable in a "Complete" sense. I have actually heard of more cases of it down here, so clearly it can't be 100% prevented.
Probably quoting your experience from your 'Pet-Owning' friend wasn't going to gain you a great response from informed Forumites either!!! (see Martina's Very Readable later posts everyone.)
Experience is a wonderful and horrendous thing!! (I know, because I lost my best friend from a different form of colic).
But I do think that Compassion and a bit of hand holding for the sad owner goes a long way. Jumping on people and their horsemanship is just mean, especially when you don't get the full picture first.

[Updated on: Tue, 14 April 2009 22:27]

Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098435 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Shadyoak  is currently offline Shadyoak  
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Hugs to you.

Going thru colic is a traumatic event...no matter what the cause.
And the little buggers are bad for it too. Mine colicked after a routine worming that he had had before.

Another option for your hay feeding is to get a big rubber/carpet mat (like 2 x 2 m) and feed him on that...that way he can push it around and still not take in much sand.

My little bloke also spends most of his time out on grass but in a grazing muzzle to limit his intake but ensure he gets some 'good stuff'


index.php?t=getfile&id=311399&private=0
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098442 is a reply to message #1098407 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Shaz  
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harry wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 22:07

martina wrote on Mon, 13 April 2009 20:56

Saved his life ?! Rolls Eyes Well , good on yaa ..... but how could it come to this in the first place ?!
Sorry , might not get the full story here , but you only get sand colic if there is nothing else to eat ?! Right ?
I can see it happen any day at my agistment place to the ponies next to my paddock. They do get fed , but only once a day and there is nothing , but NOTHING Shocked in that paddock and I do see them digging for roots and eating sand all the time !!
Basically waiting for them to get sand colic any day. Please do tell me if there is any other way a horse can get sand colic if there is ?! Thanks
Cheers MARTINA

LETS JUST REPLAY THIS CAREFULLY THOUGHT OUT RESPONSE AGAIN, IN CASE ANYONE MISSED IT.

I lived in Darwin for many years. (Something I believe even you can't claim M.) Sand colic is prevalant there, managed as best as possible, but still unavoidable in a "Complete" sense. I have actually heard of more cases of it down here, so clearly it can't be 100% prevented.
Probably quoting your experience from your 'Pet-Owning' friend wasn't going to gain you a great response from informed Forumites either!!! (see Martina's Very Readable later posts everyone.)
Experience is a wonderful and horrendous thing!! (I know, because I lost my best friend from a different form of colic).
But I do think that Compassion and a bit of hand holding for the sad owner goes a long way. Jumping on people and their horsemanship is just mean, especially when you don't get the full picture first.



Compassion and TACT, is something Martina does not have, Just Expert opinion on every friggin topic!!!!! Evil or Very Mad






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Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098451 is a reply to message #1098407 ] Tue, 14 April 2009 22:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Finn  
Messages: 16862
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The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Martina to your " saved his life Rolls Eyes " comment

What do you think would have happened to this pony if tisse had not of walked him and stayed with him all night?

Add a new word to your vocabulary TACT!.


I have an old mare here who gets colic frequently as she was previously neglected. Sounds strange but we tip a warm bottle of beer, or soft drink, down her throat as it is gassy. Has always worked for us.
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098714 is a reply to message #1096892 ] Wed, 15 April 2009 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  learns4life  is currently offline learns4life  
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Neisje wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 11:28

tisse wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 10:26

for any one interested in sand colic, its causes and the best cures i recommend John O'leary website horseproblems.com.

he is a no non-sense horseperson who uses common sense as his basis for owning horses, which to me, is one of the first things needed when owning one. if you dont have common sense i think are doomed from the start.

here is a link to his info on sand colic

http://www.horseproblems.com.au/sand_colic_by.htm


Sorry but I have MAJOR issues with this guy's recipe. Firstly he charges for a recipe that is NOT his, its an old bushmans recipe, ask any older vet and they will probably know it, they will also tell you that it killed as many horses as it fixed. It contains milk or cream (depending on which version of the recipe you use) and dairy is NOT suitable for horses, they do not digest it, it basically causes an upset stomach and flushes the guts out. One vet explained it to me as you are basically giving the horse a bout of gastro. Now think of yourself with gasto, yup everything will get passed out of your system, but how sick do you feel until its all over? I know some people do use it and like it, so please don't start a war over it, I am giving my opinion only, but as a vet nurse and as someone who has talked to several vets about this recipe, I would not give it to my horse EVER!

Neisje


2 words...
Psylum husks


Bob Marley said

I know I'm not perfect and I don't live to be. But, before you start pointing fingers, make sure your hands are clean


Try not to take it personally, I strongly dislike all humans... now horses, horses I like!
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098724 is a reply to message #1098714 ] Wed, 15 April 2009 00:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  tisse  
Messages: 428
Registered: September 2008
Location: vic
Level 1
i am over Martina's initial response, as far as she knew ( due to my lack of posting before this happened) i could of been some idiodic pet owner who had no idea.

if i can save one owner and their horse from experiencing what i did, then thats great. i honestly wouldnt wish, what i went through on my worst enermy.

i just hope that now, more people with think before they type.

edited to say, i am up again at this silly hour because i have a new puppy and she needs to be taken out for toilet time, just another responibility i have at the moment. cant expect her to open the door and go out by her self, can i now.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 April 2009 00:51]

Re: the worst night of my life [message #1098800 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Wed, 15 April 2009 07:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  remi
Messages: 2120
Registered: January 2006
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Well I just say full marks for picking up on the change in behaviour so quickly. That is what saved your little mate.
How are things today?
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1099569 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Wed, 15 April 2009 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  shaysponies  
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Tisse

Glad to hear that your little one is well again Very Happy


He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1099709 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Wed, 15 April 2009 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  trackview  is currently offline trackview  
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Hugs to you both, glad to hear everything is OK.
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1099750 is a reply to message #1098386 ] Wed, 15 April 2009 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Neisje  is currently offline Neisje  
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Out of my way, I am in the midst of a hoo haa monologue
zam zam wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 21:58


No, she made no mistake, colic happens Crying or Very Sad



Esactly! Sometimes with the very best of care and caution things still go wrong. A horse can have a roll in the paddock, something starts to twist, horse feels the pain so rolls again and before you know it you have a very sick horse with a twisted bowel, all from what started as horse having a lesiurely roll in the dirt Sad I had a horse die in the float on the way to Werribee, after we had struggled with her for several hours and no improvement so was rushed to Werribee, autopsy showed no twist, no blockage, no worms (they found one single bot in her stomach that was all!) no sign of worm damage, no sand, no ulcers, no more than a normal amount of feed and water in her stomach. She actually died they believe from a heart attack brought on by the pain she was in, but there was nothing to show what caused it. It was just 'one of those things' Sad

I am currently on 'colic alert watch' after 3 of my horses broke into the new delivery of round bales of hay overnight, not worried about the hay they ate but how much of the mesh that was around the hay they possibly ate Confused bl00dy horses Evil or Very Mad

The only time you can start to lay blame for horses getting colic is when its happening over and over so obviously they are doing something wrong. Eg a friend of mine whose mare was constantly getting colic, finaly after lots of severe lectures from me Rolls Eyes she changed the way she was feeding, and what she was feeding, and no more colic!


Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders & says...
'Oh ****...she's awake!!'
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1100269 is a reply to message #1099750 ] Wed, 15 April 2009 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  tisse  
Messages: 428
Registered: September 2008
Location: vic
Level 1
just got back from seeing my little man and he is doing fantically well.

as soon as he seen me he came over nickering, his poo has firmed up and looks clean of sand, but he will watched carefully over the next few weeks to make sure all the sand is gone.

just to clear one thing up for some people regarding walking him all night. i had no other option as the minute i stopped (becasue i was worried about exhustion setting in) he would go down and roll, if he was happy to just lay and not move then i would sat there with him but i couldnt risk him rolling for the fear of him twisting his bowel. the vet reassured us over the phone that as long as something was coming out he had not damaged his insides, aslong as his gums were pink and didnt show a red line around the gum area it meant his tummy didnt have any toxicitity ( which apparently if this red line appears the toxicitity in their tummy is dangerous and will cause problems).

the vet also said that she would of only done what we did anyway, meaning the oil drench and the muscle injections, i am just lucky that my friend john can tube a horse and give injections so the vet didnt need to make the half hour trip and charge me a fortune.

Re: the worst night of my life [message #1100902 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Wed, 15 April 2009 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raffa  is currently offline Raffa
Messages: 8
Registered: April 2009
Level 5
tisse - so glad he is feeling better as I know exactly what it is like to be hours on end, and in my case unfortunatley losing, to the battle of Colic.

It's so exhausting and sometimes all the preventative measures in the world you take can just not be enough.. You did everything you could for the little guy and glad to hear he's on the mend.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 April 2009 22:47]

Re: the worst night of my life [message #1100930 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Wed, 15 April 2009 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  happyhacks  is currently offline happyhacks  
Messages: 5843
Registered: October 2005
Location: kooweerup
Step away from the computer,

sorry to hear about your pony tisse - I have several minis and they are greedy little paddock hoovers that suck every scrap out of the ground manure, sand and all I have even seen one of mine eat worms before when she pawed and found some Shocked ...

I have taken to feeding them on a few tarps to prevent them from hoovering up sand - works well I used carpet but one of the buggers ate it..now there is a joke in there for mainie if she sees that Laughing

cannot recommend john olearys sand remedy highly enough either...last year a dear friend lost her beautiful pony to sand colic it is hideous...a far worse way to go than "regular" colics


Happy Hacks
Equine Massage Therapy
Servicing Victoria 0403305997
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1101388 is a reply to message #1100930 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  reneenumbers  
Messages: 1045
Registered: February 2008
Location: SE SRG, SPPHAV, SSHA
Level 1 - Advanced
happyhacks wrote on Wed, 15 April 2009 22:55

sorry to hear about your pony tisse - I have several minis and they are greedy little paddock hoovers that suck every scrap out of the ground manure, sand and all I have even seen one of mine eat worms before when she pawed and found some Shocked ...

I have taken to feeding them on a few tarps to prevent them from hoovering up sand - works well I used carpet but one of the buggers ate it..now there is a joke in there for mainie if she sees that Laughing

cannot recommend john olearys sand remedy highly enough either...last year a dear friend lost her beautiful pony to sand colic it is hideous...a far worse way to go than "regular" colics



Well done tisse on doing the hard yards and staying up with your little man all night to save his life. From what I understand about colic you are right in saying that it is the 'rolling' that twists their stomach and kills them. Everybody could learn a thing or two from what you did that night Smile

I use and recommend John O'Leary's sand colic recipe. I understand that not everyone will be keen to use it, however I use it 2-3 times a year, depending on the season and how my horse's poo looks. On of my horses went down with colic 3 years ago and I did the conventional thing, vet came out, gave pain relief, drenched with oil etc. I stayed with him and didn't let him roll. He came good with the pain relief, then it wore off and down he went again. Vet came out again, more painkillers and oil. He came good, then went downhill again within a few hours. I too, did the hard yards with him, and 24 hours later I was thinking the worst, that it was perhaps time to put him out of his pain. Then a dear friend of mine made me up some of John O'Leary's sand colic recipe and we drenched him with that as a last resort. A few hours later we had our first fart, then not long after that a poo. It may be a co-incidence yet this boy was as tough as nails and he must have been in awlful pain. I have never had a problem with him since and none of my other horses for that matter since giving it to them regularly. Another friend of mine has an adorable 12hh pony who has been under the weather lately and his manure is awlful. She has just drenched him with it and he appears to be brighter and have his appitite back. His manure is improving too.

As I said, each to their own, but I believe this recipe worked for me. NJ I would also rather my horse have a bit of gastro from this recipe (not that mine ever have) than suffer horribly and die of colic.

Well done tisse and lessons can be learnt out of this for everyone.


Renee
http://mbmfiles.com/Dec2009/091221-Gp9VItEYWenr.gif
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1101406 is a reply to message #1096892 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  tisse  
Messages: 428
Registered: September 2008
Location: vic
Level 1
Neisje wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 11:28

tisse wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 10:26

for any one interested in sand colic, its causes and the best cures i recommend John O'leary website horseproblems.com.

he is a no non-sense horseperson who uses common sense as his basis for owning horses, which to me, is one of the first things needed when owning one. if you dont have common sense i think are doomed from the start.

here is a link to his info on sand colic

http://www.horseproblems.com.au/sand_colic_by.htm


Sorry but I have MAJOR issues with this guy's recipe. Firstly he charges for a recipe that is NOT his, its an old bushmans recipe, ask any older vet and they will probably know it, they will also tell you that it killed as many horses as it fixed. It contains milk or cream (depending on which version of the recipe you use) and dairy is NOT suitable for horses, they do not digest it, it basically causes an upset stomach and flushes the guts out. One vet explained it to me as you are basically giving the horse a bout of gastro. Now think of yourself with gasto, yup everything will get passed out of your system, but how sick do you feel until its all over? I know some people do use it and like it, so please don't start a war over it, I am giving my opinion only, but as a vet nurse and as someone who has talked to several vets about this recipe, I would not give it to my horse EVER!

Neisje


I totally respect your views regarding this recipe, but am a little confused over your statment that dairy is not suitable for horses. why then, is is ok to give them yoghurt, isnt that a dairy product. most race horse owner use yoghurt alot, exspecially when horses tie up, or have acid build up etc.

even if using this recipe did give them a dose of gastro, wouldnt that be better than sand colic, or does gastro kill horses too. i assumme (from you discription) gastro and colic symtoms are quite similar, but if getting gastro meant my pony only had pains and a good clean out compared to what sand colic can do then i am willing to risk giving him this recipe.


Re: the worst night of my life [message #1101437 is a reply to message #1101406 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Bats79  is currently offline Bats79  
Messages: 7450
Registered: June 2007
This computer will self destruct in 10 posts
tisse wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 08:54

Neisje wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 11:28

tisse wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 10:26

for any one interested in sand colic, its causes and the best cures i recommend John O'leary website horseproblems.com.

he is a no non-sense horseperson who uses common sense as his basis for owning horses, which to me, is one of the first things needed when owning one. if you dont have common sense i think are doomed from the start.

here is a link to his info on sand colic

http://www.horseproblems.com.au/sand_colic_by.htm


Sorry but I have MAJOR issues with this guy's recipe. Firstly he charges for a recipe that is NOT his, its an old bushmans recipe, ask any older vet and they will probably know it, they will also tell you that it killed as many horses as it fixed. It contains milk or cream (depending on which version of the recipe you use) and dairy is NOT suitable for horses, they do not digest it, it basically causes an upset stomach and flushes the guts out. One vet explained it to me as you are basically giving the horse a bout of gastro. Now think of yourself with gasto, yup everything will get passed out of your system, but how sick do you feel until its all over? I know some people do use it and like it, so please don't start a war over it, I am giving my opinion only, but as a vet nurse and as someone who has talked to several vets about this recipe, I would not give it to my horse EVER!

Neisje


I totally respect your views regarding this recipe, but am a little confused over your statment that dairy is not suitable for horses. why then, is is ok to give them yoghurt, isnt that a dairy product. most race horse owner use yoghurt alot, exspecially when horses tie up, or have acid build up etc.

even if using this recipe did give them a dose of gastro, wouldnt that be better than sand colic, or does gastro kill horses too. i assumme (from you discription) gastro and colic symtoms are quite similar, but if getting gastro meant my pony only had pains and a good clean out compared to what sand colic can do then i am willing to risk giving him this recipe.



The issue is that the sand remedy works by giving the horse scours. The horse's bowel goes into spasmodic response and flushes (if possible) everything out - good bacteria, hydration fluids AND sand.

YOGURT isn't good for horses - the cultures that are contained in are helpful to increase the levels of bacteria in a horses gut and the culture is somewhat suitable. Horses are incapable of absorbing milk solids through the gut after weaning.

If you can't find a better treatment than the milk/cream one then I guess that's the one you use but if you want to know if your horse has sand in his poo then you disolve some in water, rinse it out carefully until you find sand.

And I can understand Martina's reaction. It's the worst night of your life if you're a 14 year old kid. If it's the worst night of your life and your a parent then you are VERY lucky. There are far more truama's and "hard nights" to face owning horses and having families than losing, or saving a horse from colic.

Congratulations for saving him, if it happens again you might not be able to and everyone will be sorry and know you put in the effort.

[Updated on: Thu, 16 April 2009 09:11]


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Re: the worst night of my life [message #1101486 is a reply to message #1101437 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  tisse  
Messages: 428
Registered: September 2008
Location: vic
Level 1
Bats79 wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 09:08

tisse wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 08:54

Neisje wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 11:28

tisse wrote on Tue, 14 April 2009 10:26

for any one interested in sand colic, its causes and the best cures i recommend John O'leary website horseproblems.com.

he is a no non-sense horseperson who uses common sense as his basis for owning horses, which to me, is one of the first things needed when owning one. if you dont have common sense i think are doomed from the start.

here is a link to his info on sand colic

http://www.horseproblems.com.au/sand_colic_by.htm


Sorry but I have MAJOR issues with this guy's recipe. Firstly he charges for a recipe that is NOT his, its an old bushmans recipe, ask any older vet and they will probably know it, they will also tell you that it killed as many horses as it fixed. It contains milk or cream (depending on which version of the recipe you use) and dairy is NOT suitable for horses, they do not digest it, it basically causes an upset stomach and flushes the guts out. One vet explained it to me as you are basically giving the horse a bout of gastro. Now think of yourself with gasto, yup everything will get passed out of your system, but how sick do you feel until its all over? I know some people do use it and like it, so please don't start a war over it, I am giving my opinion only, but as a vet nurse and as someone who has talked to several vets about this recipe, I would not give it to my horse EVER!

Neisje


I totally respect your views regarding this recipe, but am a little confused over your statment that dairy is not suitable for horses. why then, is is ok to give them yoghurt, isnt that a dairy product. most race horse owner use yoghurt alot, exspecially when horses tie up, or have acid build up etc.

even if using this recipe did give them a dose of gastro, wouldnt that be better than sand colic, or does gastro kill horses too. i assumme (from you discription) gastro and colic symtoms are quite similar, but if getting gastro meant my pony only had pains and a good clean out compared to what sand colic can do then i am willing to risk giving him this recipe.



The issue is that the sand remedy works by giving the horse scours. The horse's bowel goes into spasmodic response and flushes (if possible) everything out - good bacteria, hydration fluids AND sand.

YOGURT isn't good for horses - the cultures that are contained in are helpful to increase the levels of bacteria in a horses gut and the culture is somewhat suitable. Horses are incapable of absorbing milk solids through the gut after weaning.
If you can't find a better treatment than the milk/cream one then I guess that's the one you use but if you want to know if your horse has sand in his poo then you disolve some in water, rinse it out carefully until you find sand.

And I can understand Martina's reaction. It's the worst night of your life if you're a 14 year old kid. If it's the worst night of your life and your a parent then you are VERY lucky. There are far more truama's and "hard nights" to face owning horses and having families than losing, or saving a horse from colic.
Congratulations for saving him, if it happens again you might not be able to and everyone will be sorry and know you put in the effort.


so using an oil drench is just as cruel then? because they cant obsorb the oil either, hence why it comes straight out the other end. yet this is pretty much the only method vets use.

whether its my kids or my animals going through a horrible time ( my son has just got over kidney failure, which was the worst week of my life ) i will do what ever i have to for any of them.

i will do my best to not let it happen again, if it does (as i have other ponies) then i would do exactly what i did that night. i dont want sympathy from anyone, thats not what my post was about, like when anything dramatic happens in your life it nice to talk and express your feeling to people who understand what you went through.






Re: the worst night of my life [message #1101541 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  stormy  
Messages: 4711
Registered: October 2005
Step away from the computer,
Firsty to tisse
Im so glad your little pony is ok
And sometimes we are lucky we are given a warning...Im sure this warning was an eye opener for you re: the sand.
(pony and your daughter are very cute Very Happy )

I have 2 miniature ponies...little darlings Very Happy
I love them to bits, they are little tubs of lard
They live in a dirt paddock...(as do all my horses)
They get hay twice a day...
My whole property is a dust bowl....no grass anywhere.
I always worry about colic....and yes eating dirt can cause a similar colic as sand colic as they pick up small stones and they sit in their gut.
I am going to start all my horses on the psyllium husks weekly.

And very interesting comments re the yoghurt...
We use it often at work for horses with scours due to stress situations as an extra coating for their gut as well as ulcer guard.
We have never had any side affects...it seems to help...

I hate colic
Have seen way too much of it in my time...
I work in the horse industry and we see so much of it in various degrees.
Always scary....


I need more time before I run out of time!!!!!!!!

index.php?t=getfile&id=122717&private=0
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1101675 is a reply to message #1101541 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Supastef  
Messages: 5494
Registered: January 2006
Location: Horsham & District Eq...
Step away from the computer,
Geepers we are an anaylitical lot!!

The important part is the pony is ok.....appears that Tisse needs some well earned rest, we all have some "anti-sand" recipes to peruse and once again have more unflattering glimpses into some forumite's charcacters.

Yes it's a forum, but there is absoluteley no need to be rude (call it tactless if you like)



Re: the worst night of my life [message #1101830 is a reply to message #1101486 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Neisje  is currently offline Neisje  
Messages: 10272
Registered: July 2007
Out of my way, I am in the midst of a hoo haa monologue
tisse wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 09:28


so using an oil drench is just as cruel then? because they cant obsorb the oil either, hence why it comes straight out the other end. yet this is pretty much the only method vets use.



As Bats said no yoghurt is not good for horses either, but your trying to get the benifits of the bacteria from it, but personally I would never even feed yoghurt to a horse.

Oil does NOT cause a reaction like milk does, oil passes through the guts and softens everything it comes into contact with (manure, any blockages) and makes them easier to pass through. Milk causes an 'upset' stomach and a reaction just like us getting gastro, and YES it can kill some horses (not all are going to have a bad reaction, just like some people get gastro and feel off for a day others get it and end up in hospital on deaths door) But as I said its my opinion and if you feel it works for you then by all means use it.

And actually even the vets will tell you that psylium is better at removing sand than oil is. My vet said if they could find a way to mix it with water and stomach tube it before it turned to jelly they would use it over oil every time for sand colic. But most times when you know your horse has sand its at the 'colic' stage of being in pain, unwilling to eat etc, so the vets take the normal route of pain killers and oil. You cannot force feed a sick painful horse to try and get him to eat psylium!

This has been an interesting discussion, I think lots of people have learnt things from hearing everyones views.

Glad to hear that the pony is better too.


Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders & says...
'Oh ****...she's awake!!'
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1102751 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  tisse  
Messages: 428
Registered: September 2008
Location: vic
Level 1
well today was interesting, i decided to wash some of JJ poo just to see if i could find any sand, Shocked i couldnt believe what i was seeing.

this is just what i found in four lots of his poo that was only between 15 minutes and 5 hours old.

it may be a coincidence, but this is what is coming out after using John O'leary's reciepe yesterday. his poo today looked like normal firm poo, but once i washed it with water i was shocked to see the amount in the bottom of the bucket.

i cant imagine how much has already came out and how much more there is to come.

in the pictures the sand is wet, but i assume that its wet inside their stomach too, the sand from four lots of poop weighed in at 1.5 kilograms. Shocked Shocked Shocked

JJ seems to be back to his normal self, i let him out with the other ponies today, he was bucking and playing like crazy..

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Re: the worst night of my life [message #1102808 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21504
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
This thread has certainly been a rollercoaster, however some good information has come out of it.

Personally I wouldnt feed a horse diary or any other animal products (cod liver oil for example)...but that just me,


Those photos are incredible!

Thank you for sharing your photos and your story! Smile
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1102954 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Bellazeus  
Messages: 7846
Registered: February 2006
Location: Brown HIllian
This computer will self destruct in 10 posts
Tisse.. go get an old poo and wash it and see how much is in that!!
Re: the worst night of my life [message #1102977 is a reply to message #1095949 ] Thu, 16 April 2009 19:59 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
  pinky
Messages: 2921
Registered: September 2008
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
wow

He is very lucky. that is a lot of sand for such a little guy to have in his belly.....

WOWWWWW...

Ive been told over time yogurt is fine to give to horses, which is a dairy product. For the gut flora.

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