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competing at a higher level [message #2646197] Thu, 10 May 2012 09:21 Go to next message
  Mac  
Messages: 22516
Registered: October 2005
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
(and this is not prompted by any other topic or comment on this forum ..... )

I often get asked by riders for advice on whether they should try a higher level test at a competition. The usual answer, especially for riders who I don't know, is to ask them why THEY want to do it. The usual reasons (with HRCAV riders) is, boredom with the riding the same of tests at their current level, frustration/boredom with not improving, and/or wanting a challenge.

It now seems that the old mantra of training at a higher level than what you compete, is obselete for most people, and within the HRCAV, a lot of riders are using competitions for their 'training'. Sad

I saw some very wise words from a well respected, high level EA judge on this very topic, and with their permission, have asked to reproduce it or refer to it.


" .... But your dressage competition test isn't ever to show that you CAN do the movements required at that level, it's to show HOW WELL you can do the movements at that level.

If you simply CAN do the movements, then you really can't expect more than 5s, with the odd sympathy 6 thrown in. You have to be able to do them well, and if it's a competition (and of course it is) and you want to do well, then you have to be able to do them BETTER THAN most of the other riders."




Thoughts anyone ?

Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646233 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  ranger  is currently offline ranger  
Messages: 750
Registered: November 2006
Location: SALE
Level 1 - Advanced
Nod Nod I couldn't agree with you more. I have been brought up with the notion you should always be training a level above that with which you compete.

Sure we all can have bad days when the wheels fall off I have had my fair share of them, but if you don't think your horse is up to doing the test respectable to start with then stay home & put more work in. Very Happy
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646235 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Diffs,mum  is currently offline Diffs,mum  
Messages: 877
Registered: October 2008
Level 1 - Advanced
I wouldn't pay 20 bucks to ride a training test a level higher!
I pay my instructor to yell at me for an hour in her arena until I'm finally good enough to point up.
I'm L4 atm.... I train L3 I know I can hardly lengthen stride and am useless at sitting trot, so I dont see the point of doing an extra test at L3.

And then what if you win at level 3 ,and you are graded at level 4?
does that mean you instantly become upgraded to level 3? Because if you win you are obviously a good L3 right? and not really a L4 at all?
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646275 is a reply to message #2646235 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Disguise  is currently offline Disguise  
Messages: 643
Registered: October 2005
Level 1 - Advanced
A valid & very good comment but I'll put my hand up & admit I fall into the category of a rider who will compete at the level their training at. My next comp is going to be the Elmore mid-week series & I either only ride one test or I have a go at the next level. For the amount of time & effort it takes to get there (plus I have to take a day off work), I can't justify only riding in one test so I'm having a go at the level above (I've pointed out of Novice so therefore Elementary & Medium are my only options or I ride HC in the novice). I'd love to say I'm training Advanced but the reality is I'm only just able to string together the Medium test so I'm going to have a go Surprised
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646287 is a reply to message #2646275 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Bats79  is currently offline Bats79  
Messages: 7232
Registered: June 2007
This computer will self destruct in 10 posts
Considering just the training side of it "many" of the movements that are a required part of a higher level test are also very helpful for improving the riding of the lower test.

IE - you quickly find the errors in your training when you do the higher level test (AT HOME) to see how well prepared you are for competition.

There can be a lot of damage done to horse and rider confidence when they step up to a level that they aren't quite ready for - but it is usually because of certain movements such as reinback, pirouette or flying change. Horse and rider panic about these and everything - contact, relaxation, submission - go out the door.

No good going up a level to ruin what you already have.

But everyone should be training - at least for the degree of collection and precision required - a level above what they are competing to help improve their performance.

Though that can be difficult for level 5s or for other people who lack confidence in the ring. Sometimes only miles and miles of competitions do that.


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Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646288 is a reply to message #2646235 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  jazir1787  
Messages: 10422
Registered: December 2009
Out of my way, I am in the midst of a hoo haa monologue
i agree

and i also feel that both the horses i ahve been assessed on (HRCAV) have been "over assessed"

i had two different assessors, both looked at whichever horse i rode and said "this is a great horse, it will not take them long to move up a level so i'm going to stick you straight into this one"

both times the horses have been under experienced and barely established, and aged 13-15yo

took about a year - 18months to get one of them up to scratch in that level, with Fleur going from barely holding together a canter to 2nd best educated L2 at TTT.

But neither horse should have started where they are, neither one of them was competing dressage at the level they had been assigned to

i'm not saying they should go out and win from the start, but i would expect them to at least have an average score.



are our assessors being too nice?


~ My treasures do not clink together and glitter...
...they gleam in the sun and neigh in the night ~

RIP Jazzy <3
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646313 is a reply to message #2646288 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  zilla  
Messages: 2834
Registered: June 2009
Location: Gerogery
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
jazir1787 wrote on Thu, 10 May 2012 10:46

i agree

and i also feel that both the horses i ahve been assessed on (HRCAV) have been "over assessed"

i had two different assessors, both looked at whichever horse i rode and said "this is a great horse, it will not take them long to move up a level so i'm going to stick you straight into this one"

both times the horses have been under experienced and barely established, and aged 13-15yo

took about a year - 18months to get one of them up to scratch in that level, with Fleur going from barely holding together a canter to 2nd best educated L2 at TTT.

But neither horse should have started where they are, neither one of them was competing dressage at the level they had been assigned to

i'm not saying they should go out and win from the start, but i would expect them to at least have an average score.



are our assessors being too nice?


Or are the assessors being too harsh by saying "that horse has potential so I'll put you in the higher level". Confused

Under that reasoning when I feel Harvey is ready to be assessed as a 3 (my minimum assessment, because my old horse could do some pretty tricks Confused ) because he has outstanding natural balance and movement an assessor will put him into Level 2 because "he has potential"? Confused If an assessor says to me that they're putting him into 2 I'll just flat out refuse ... What's the point of doing 2 on a talented horse when his rider knows he's not ready?

I've seen a lot of horses lately that have been assessed a level simply because they CAN do that level. Confused

My old horse was put into Level 1 because he could do shoulder-in, travers, half-pass and walk pirouttes. It was nearly advanced but extended paces and flying changes didn't exist at the time (thank goodness!). The horse, I realise now, was flat out holding it together for a decent Level 2 test ...

So I guess I do believe in working a level higher than you compete ... but when you are assessed at the limit of your training you're kinda screwed a bit if you want to compete.
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646339 is a reply to message #2646313 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  KLB4  is currently offline KLB4  
Messages: 378
Registered: November 2005
Location: Albury
Level 1
I fully agree Mac.

The only time I will come out, even if not ready to be competitive, is level 3 for HRCAV. That is only because I cannot be assessed any lower and the young ones do need some outings as learning experiences. If necessary I will ride a level 4 HC. I still won't take them out though until I know I can safely get then around the test without stresssing them. If I am going out with the idea of trying to be competitive they need to be working a good level 2, if not starting 1, at home.

My two greenies had their first competition outing at level 3 on the weekend and they both suprised me. Both warmed up nice and calmly and they coped really well. One when he got in the test reverted to his work of a few months ago and was a bit tense which was what I did kind of expect, the other amazed me and actually worked better than he had in the week leading up. It will take another few comp outings and more work at home until I am really happy that they can go out and hopefully be competitive.

I won't even bother registering a horse with the EA until they are working a good elementary at home and they will them come out at prelim.

There is no point trying a higher level out unless it is very solid at home. The riders only frustrate themselves and it is not fair on the horses.
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646354 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  elsiepoodle  
Messages: 1058
Registered: December 2007
Location: LARC
Level 1 - Advanced
Hear what you're saying Mac, however where does level assessment fit in?
Level Assessors don't say, well, you're training at level 3 so I'll put you in level 4 - they give you the level they see you riding on the day.
Does that mean you get assessed as level 3, then have to wait till the horse is training level 2 movements before you go out and compete? Or do you have to go out and ride level 4 HC for a while?
I'm training level 3 at home and competing level 4. However we have trouble with tension and being distracted out at comps, so most of the time are lucky with a 60% in level 4. I would give level 3 a go if I wanted to do a dressage day but there was only one test offered - I don't see the point in going out for just one test!
That said, I enjoy competing and it wouldn't bother me if I went out and bombed out in level 3 - at this stage I'd rather do as many tests as I can to try and work through the issues we are having, when we get in that arena!
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646355 is a reply to message #2646313 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  jazir1787  
Messages: 10422
Registered: December 2009
Out of my way, I am in the midst of a hoo haa monologue
@ zilla (i took too long to post and now it doesn't make sense!)

true.

you need to be careful with your new boy, on his own he could get assessed much higher than his ability in public, he fell apart at that last rally with so much going on

it was a bit like that extremely misleading canter Monty did for me on assessment day, in a nice big over sized arena. shove him in a normal sized arena and he struggles to canter a 20m circle, and yet is L3 on half points?!

still, i think he has it in him, i think by mid summer he will be really pulling things together, it's hard this time of year with no daylight

[Updated on: Thu, 10 May 2012 12:08]


~ My treasures do not clink together and glitter...
...they gleam in the sun and neigh in the night ~

RIP Jazzy <3
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646362 is a reply to message #2646354 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  jazir1787  
Messages: 10422
Registered: December 2009
Out of my way, I am in the midst of a hoo haa monologue
elsiepoodle wrote on Thu, 10 May 2012 12:06

Hear what you're saying Mac, however where does level assessment fit in?
Level Assessors don't say, well, you're training at level 3 so I'll put you in level 4 - they give you the level they see you riding on the day.
Does that mean you get assessed as level 3, then have to wait till the horse is training level 2 movements before you go out and compete? Or do you have to go out and ride level 4 HC for a while?
I'm training level 3 at home and competing level 4. However we have trouble with tension and being distracted out at comps, so most of the time are lucky with a 60% in level 4. I would give level 3 a go if I wanted to do a dressage day but there was only one test offered - I don't see the point in going out for just one test!
That said, I enjoy competing and it wouldn't bother me if I went out and bombed out in level 3 - at this stage I'd rather do as many tests as I can to try and work through the issues we are having, when we get in that arena!


i get where you're coming from

i'm not really blaming the LAers, they can only judge on what they see.

we jumped right in and started competing at the assessed level, but we're using the days out as training, because it is going to take us awhile to move up establishment-wise.

i appreciate getting comments back from the judges, it's a great way to see where you're up to, but i do feel many of them are a bit put out (possibly insulted?) when the horse is clearly not up to the work being asked.


perhaps LAing should be done by watching a horse do a whole test, rather than just doing a few movements in an arena? it would give a more accurate assessment? the LAer could "judge" the test and review their own comments before slapping a label on?

[Updated on: Thu, 10 May 2012 12:14]


~ My treasures do not clink together and glitter...
...they gleam in the sun and neigh in the night ~

RIP Jazzy <3
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646461 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  zilla  
Messages: 2834
Registered: June 2009
Location: Gerogery
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
I hear you JZ about him falling apart in public (hence the day the float arrives he'll be going somewhere every week! Wink ) It's also a big part of the reason I didn't get him assessed as he needed to get out in public and realise that he's no longer going to the races. He'll cotton on to the fact pretty quick, but I'm in not going to push his education faster because he has "potential".



Mac re-reading what you've written you're clearly looking at this from the perspective of a dressage judge. As a judge are you seeing combinations that are competing with "no reserves" (ie. at the very limit of their training/education)? And they are still wanting to step up a level?

I'm genuinely curious. Pencilling at some recent comps I've seen combinations struggling at their level (repeatedly, not just one day) and others who could blitz the field a level higher.

So is this a training problem, an LA problem or judging problem ... or as I believe a bit of everything?

As someone with a greenie that will need assessing in the near future I am seriously concerned about being LA'd at the level we are training and not the level where we need to be. I like to have something in reserve, so to speak, when I compete. Leg-yields and laterals are handy to have in the back pocket when a greenie decides that life is far too exciting! Shocked Laughing
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646503 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  RubyH  
Messages: 1980
Registered: October 2007
Location: EA
Stark, Raving Bonkers
I agree with you Mac, but I also think taking a step up should be results-based, as well as depending on how the schooling is going at home. It is equally frustrating to see somebody constantly placing at a level, yet not moving forward. I know a couple of people like this, who have been in the same level (eg PCAV level 3) for a number of years, placing consistently, yet not advancing. Placing should be an achievment, not a given, in my opinion.

It also depends on the comp. For example, I'm going to be competing associate elementary at a local comp (and my gelding is schooling some medium movements, but certainly not of competition quality!). However, if I were competing in an official comp at say, Werribee or SIEC, I would definately be sticking to novice level. You've got to take the step up at some point, and it would seem foolish to pick a big show?


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Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646523 is a reply to message #2646354 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  rachaelw  
Messages: 3293
Registered: July 2008
Location: Lakes Entrance, Victoria
Unstoppable, ungaggable, unzippable
elsiepoodle wrote on Thu, 10 May 2012 12:06

Hear what you're saying Mac, however where does level assessment fit in?
Level Assessors don't say, well, you're training at level 3 so I'll put you in level 4 - they give you the level they see you riding on the day. Does that mean you get assessed as level 3, then have to wait till the horse is training level 2 movements before you go out and compete? Or do you have to go out and ride level 4 HC for a while?
I'm training level 3 at home and competing level 4. However we have trouble with tension and being distracted out at comps, so most of the time are lucky with a 60% in level 4. I would give level 3 a go if I wanted to do a dressage day but there was only one test offered - I don't see the point in going out for just one test!
That said, I enjoy competing and it wouldn't bother me if I went out and bombed out in level 3 - at this stage I'd rather do as many tests as I can to try and work through the issues we are having, when we get in that arena!



I agree with what your saying Mac, and ideally thats how I'd like to train/compete. But like elsie has pointed out, LA's (or every LA I have encountered) is always quite generous with their assessing. Comments I have received were, 'well it wont take you long to point out of L4 so we'll just put you in L3'.

I received this comment when I presented for LA on my 8yo WB mare who had not had a hand layed on her since she was broken in as a 3yo, let alone ever been out to a LA day or a competition. Yes she was a lovely mare, but it took me 1 1/2hrs of working down and ground work at the LA'ment day before I could even get on her. Thats how tense and nervous she was about going out. No such issues at home though. Highest level I have been assessed is L4. And yet she still wanted to assess us L3!!! Shocked I argued my way into a L4 with points assessment, and was embarrassed beyond belief for our first 3ish months competing coming dead last most times. Being new to HRCAV at the time, I didn't know I could have done L5 HC.

So to summarise, agree with you 100%, but I think this way of thinking needs to be passed on to the LA'ers.


www.lakeviewwarmbloods.com.au
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2646600 is a reply to message #2646523 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Mac  
Messages: 22516
Registered: October 2005
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.

[Updated on: Thu, 10 May 2012 17:48]

Re: competing at a higher level [message #2648342 is a reply to message #2646523 ] Sun, 13 May 2012 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Mac  
Messages: 22516
Registered: October 2005
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
rachaelw wrote on Thu, 10 May 2012 15:43

....So to summarise, agree with you 100%, but I think this way of thinking needs to be passed on to the LA'ers.



totally different ballgame with LA's who MAY be assessing combinations at a higher level than what the rider is comfortable with. At least in that instance, if the rider isn't happy, they can always appeal the assessment. Wink


my topic was addressing RIDERS who want to compete at a higher level, and their reasons and expectations.

Smile

Re: competing at a higher level [message #2648360 is a reply to message #2648342 ] Sun, 13 May 2012 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Broodmare1  is currently offline Broodmare1  
Messages: 4547
Registered: May 2007
Location: Wang
Step away from the computer,
I'm a level 3 rider who rides one test at most com

ps at level 2. Why do i do it... for a few reasons- I'm quite bored with the l3 tests(been in the level waaayyyy too long!)so it gives me abit of a challenge and keeps me super motivated in my training at home; we are very close to pointing up so it gives me a chance of familiarising myself with the tests; gives me an opportunity to ride with little pressure and expectation, all I want to gain is improvement i don't care where i place. There are more reasons but i can't think of them!

We train at a higher level so we're well equipped to be competitive unfortuneately the rider lets the team down. My instructor has encouraged me to continue riding at a higher level. At least when we are actually at that level I'll feel more confident that we're up to it since at most comps we're within a few % of the top riders. The areas we lack are more rider error and it means I go home and train train train to improve. I do however go into every single test striving to ride the best i can no matter what level!

Hope that makes some sort of sense!!
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2648430 is a reply to message #2648342 ] Sun, 13 May 2012 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  zilla  
Messages: 2834
Registered: June 2009
Location: Gerogery
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
Mac wrote on Sun, 13 May 2012 08:16

rachaelw wrote on Thu, 10 May 2012 15:43

....So to summarise, agree with you 100%, but I think this way of thinking needs to be passed on to the LA'ers.



totally different ballgame with LA's who MAY be assessing combinations at a higher level than what the rider is comfortable with. At least in that instance, if the rider isn't happy, they can always appeal the assessment. Wink


my topic was addressing RIDERS who want to compete at a higher level, and their reasons and expectations.

Smile




So you're actually asking about riders who've been competing for a while and not training a level higher? As I said, just genuinely curious.

Also I am curious about riders who are assessed at the limit of their training and competing. Are LA's just saying "you can do the stuff required of this higher level, so we'll put you there"? Or should they be looking at HOW well the movements are accomplished and "saying you can do what's required of the higher level, but you aren't ready yet"?

For me, stepping up a level is done to test how the training is going. It's to find out what is going on that I can't see or feel myself. Another person's view point of what needs working on. If I think we're ready to tackle one harder test it's to gauge where we're at. It's also a test to see where my timing and planning for the warm-up is at. Last time I rode up I totally over cooked the warm-up ... so back to the drawing board! Razz Embarassed
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2648471 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Sun, 13 May 2012 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  martina  is currently offline martina  
Messages: 19089
Registered: April 2007
Location: Surf Coast RC
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
I DON't want to compete at a higher level, but HAVE to Confused
My breaker pony is no were near ready to go out yet, but when he will be .... he is still not ready for a Level 3 test !!! That's where I will have to start though due to MY dressage level.
I know, I can go HC in the Level 4 and that's what I will try to do. Sometimes difficult to get in though, as that is usually the Level with the most entries.
For the riders wanting to compete at a higher level - I would not do that before your work at the level below is rock solid and you are at least in the top 10 and marks over 60%
Cheers MARTINA


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Re: competing at a higher level [message #2648533 is a reply to message #2648471 ] Sun, 13 May 2012 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Portia  is currently offline Portia
Messages: 96
Registered: October 2006
Location: Nyora
Level 3
I always beleive in training at a level or so higher than you are competing at, especially for us HRCAV lower level riders who are learning the basic ropes still. As your training improves, the quality of work improves, then you start competing and once that is established your competitiveness comes in and you level up accordingly. Always training higher at home. However at times it doesnt hurt to challenge yourself and your horse either, by attempting a higher level test.
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2649268 is a reply to message #2648342 ] Mon, 14 May 2012 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  jazir1787  
Messages: 10422
Registered: December 2009
Out of my way, I am in the midst of a hoo haa monologue
Mac wrote on Sun, 13 May 2012 08:16

rachaelw wrote on Thu, 10 May 2012 15:43

....So to summarise, agree with you 100%, but I think this way of thinking needs to be passed on to the LA'ers.



totally different ballgame with LA's who MAY be assessing combinations at a higher level than what the rider is comfortable with. At least in that instance, if the rider isn't happy, they can always appeal the assessment. Wink


my topic was addressing RIDERS who want to compete at a higher level, and their reasons and expectations.

Smile





my answer sounded better in my head Embarassed

i was trying to say something about moving into a level higher than the horse is really ready for, and it somehow merged into one about being over assessed...



is it perhaps because the people looking to move up a level are being over complimented by those around them? no-one wants to hear they aren't as good as they think they are, but perhaps the words of encouragement given to them have been taken the wrong way?

i don't have a lot of ambition when it comes to competing, moving up a level isn't really something I think about or aim for. with the green horses i've had recently the focus is more how well they're doing their work. Don't get me wrong, i love winning, but i can go home just as satisfied if the horse puts in some great work.


~ My treasures do not clink together and glitter...
...they gleam in the sun and neigh in the night ~

RIP Jazzy <3
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2649747 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Mon, 14 May 2012 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  antipodean warmbloods  is currently offline antipodean warmbloods  
Messages: 573
Registered: November 2008
Level 1
I think nearly all riders want to improve and move up the levels, after all isn't that the point? I can't comment on HRCAV as I don't compete in it, but as far as EA goes, you often see people riding in levels that they are clearly not capable of doing well. I think as a rider, if you attempt a higher level and are continually scoring in the low 50% , you need to re-assess and drop down a level, or get a different horse, or stay home and get better at it. if you are consistently getting crap scores, stop whining about the judges and take a long hard look at yourself and your horse's ability. ALL the judges can't be wrong ALL of the time.
Ambition is a wonderful thing, but as riders, we mustn't let it outstrip our capabilities.
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2650156 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Tue, 15 May 2012 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  chopin  is currently offline chopin  
Messages: 6245
Registered: March 2011
This computer will self destruct in 10 posts
ok here goes Rolls Eyes

I am level 5, did one comp last year, then did the unofficial midweek dressage each month all last year

This year, they encouraged me to have a shot at level 4 as it's more of a training day. I did a comp in january, just level 5 jackpot and did ok, still a hell of a lot to work on, more me than my horse Rolls Eyes

So I've done 3 midweeks at level 4, and each time I've set myself a goal, whether its doing a decent circle, cantering further each time, eg, canter between A and K, circle at E then trot back at H.

Our centre lines and halts have improved, halting is his forte Laughing moving forward is our issue, but then he looks after me cos I bounce like a bag of spuds, if i lose balance he slows down or stops, so prob doesnt look good for level 4 atm, but my mum said its good to train a level higher, gives you something to work for.

So last weekend i did a level 5 and 4 test and did much better in the 4, maybe cos he was more warmed up,arena was a bit better than the other arena.

My goal was to not come last in level 4, and we didnt, so I was rapt. Didnt make the distance in the canter, may have if it wasnt wet, but we got some nice halts and centre lines and he seems to change up a gear going across the diagonal in trot, so we are slowly slowly improving.

Most people say the 2nd test is usually better and I will only do level 4 comps if there is only 1 test in each level. Dont think we would last more than 2 anyway Very Happy figure if you drive there and get prepared etc you might as well do 2 tests.

and here is a pic of my lovely man Very Happy
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Re: competing at a higher level [message #2650964 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Wed, 16 May 2012 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Zippit  is currently offline Zippit  
Messages: 1253
Registered: October 2008
Completely Insane
Competing a a higher level??? Only talking about HRCAV here.

I know quite a few people that dont want to ride at the level that they should be. They either are embarrassed or have tickets on themselves or something to ride where they should be.

They somehow get themselves assessed at a higher level. (Probably another whole topic).

Beats me why would you do that to your beloved steed for a start. Evil or Very Mad

So they go and compete at this higher level - the combination either isnt ready or strong enough, they have really missed so much in their training. They think are on a fast track but the journey ends up slower, they get low percentages and wonder why. Crying or Very Sad

To me I reckon you should go thru the levels improving and pointing up as you go. That is how the system is designed. Very Happy

Re: competing at a higher level [message #2651152 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Wed, 16 May 2012 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  sunbeach  is currently offline sunbeach  
Messages: 816
Registered: February 2010
Level 1 - Advanced
I wouldn't want to compete at a higher level.

I have just moved up to the next level, and as I was a complete newby at all this, it took its time and a lot of hard work, and I'm pleased to say I really 'earned' my spot into the next level.
My instructor says that we can do the movements...but it's about doing them well and being accurate. And now in this level that's my challenge.

There is no point to me at having a go at the next level. I still need a better foundation to go up. And too much pressure on me and my horse...so no fun either. Plus we haven't succeeded yet at the lower level, so why attempt this one?
Another point I would like to make it that, if lots of riders are competing a level higher doesn't it lower the quality of the field? After all it's still a competition, and much more exciting to do well when all are in the same level. just MHO Smile
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2651603 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Wed, 16 May 2012 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Adelatus  is currently offline Adelatus  
Messages: 707
Registered: October 2005
Location: Horsham
Level 1 - Advanced
I'm dying to go up a level, but at the rate I'm going, I will point up in about 10 years. I've been in Level 3 for about 3 years I suppose, with just the odd points here and there. I don't have horses with flashy movement, so I'm limited in the percentage scores I can get and to be in the points, I find you need to be in the high 60s. To win you need over 70%. That's not going to happen for me. Level 3 is extremely competitive. A few weeks ago there were 30 entries in my level. I was thrilled to get a 3rd place in one test.

I have had a go at Level 2 before (scored over 60%) and have entered my next comp at Level 2. I'm bored with Level 3 and I've been competing successfully in official and unofficial Novice for 2 years, usually getting over 60% and I'm not far away from attempting my first Elementary test. So bugger it, Level 2 next outing!


Life's short. Eat dessert first.
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2651639 is a reply to message #2650156 ] Wed, 16 May 2012 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Bats79  is currently offline Bats79  
Messages: 7232
Registered: June 2007
This computer will self destruct in 10 posts
chopin wrote on Tue, 15 May 2012 10:45

ok here goes Rolls Eyes

I am level 5, did one comp last year, then did the unofficial midweek dressage each month all last year

This year, they encouraged me to have a shot at level 4 as it's more of a training day. I did a comp in january, just level 5 jackpot and did ok, still a hell of a lot to work on, more me than my horse Rolls Eyes

So I've done 3 midweeks at level 4, and each time I've set myself a goal, whether its doing a decent circle, cantering further each time, eg, canter between A and K, circle at E then trot back at H.

Our centre lines and halts have improved, halting is his forte Laughing moving forward is our issue, but then he looks after me cos I bounce like a bag of spuds, if i lose balance he slows down or stops, so prob doesnt look good for level 4 atm, but my mum said its good to train a level higher, gives you something to work for.

So last weekend i did a level 5 and 4 test and did much better in the 4, maybe cos he was more warmed up,arena was a bit better than the other arena.

My goal was to not come last in level 4, and we didnt, so I was rapt. Didnt make the distance in the canter, may have if it wasnt wet, but we got some nice halts and centre lines and he seems to change up a gear going across the diagonal in trot, so we are slowly slowly improving.

Most people say the 2nd test is usually better and I will only do level 4 comps if there is only 1 test in each level. Dont think we would last more than 2 anyway Very Happy figure if you drive there and get prepared etc you might as well do 2 tests.

and here is a pic of my lovely man Very Happy
index.php?t=getfile&id=509987&private=0




Sounds like a very good plan. Very Happy And looks like a lovely horse.


http://www.vgp.com.au/Writing-paper.jpg

Brokeford Holsteiners website - photos and videos http://www.brokeford.com.au
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2652023 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Thu, 17 May 2012 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  chopin  is currently offline chopin  
Messages: 6245
Registered: March 2011
This computer will self destruct in 10 posts
thanks bats, he is a lovely boy. Very Happy
I've also been having weekly lessons and my instructor is working on forward forward forward
and circles

yesterday we had another gear in canter, I haven't cantered like that before. I hung onto my trusty monkey grip, but once I got the ryhthm, it felt nice.
And I was just pleased that my boy is soo good, he hadnt been ridden since the previous sunday as he was a bit stiff on the wednesday lesson, so we just did groundwork, got the acupuncture lady in, and yesterday he was moving really nice and forward and soft and bits of roundness.

Our goal is to have forward thru all the test, but at least we are getting bits here and there.
And no kicking like a mad woman Rolls Eyes
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2652768 is a reply to message #2652023 ] Fri, 18 May 2012 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Horseychick01  is currently offline Horseychick01  
Messages: 450
Registered: December 2009
Location: RDAV,EV,AQHA,AmQHA
Level 1
Re level assessing..me grade 5 rider done a few comps but not pointed out was nearly there in showing...buy a new horse (edumacated) LOL....get assessed on new horse wanted to place me level 3 !!! showing and dressage w..t..f I had to beg to stay L4 for dressage as no way on this earth I am a level 3 rider and well for the showing she gave me L4 with 87.5 points. I understand it is combination that is assessed but on the odd occasion I stuff my trot diagonals up and I am learning to ride an educated horse and I will not compete until I know the correct buttons. I do have weekly lessons. At this stage I will not compete at Level 3 as I know I am no where ready to do so. Very Happy
PS Hi M


Would love to go on a world trip and not have a worry in the world.
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2655194 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Mon, 21 May 2012 07:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  ponymad  is currently offline ponymad  
Messages: 3070
Registered: August 2007
Location: Bulla & Broadford
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
Can't say I have ever had an opportunity to train at the higher level for very long... We have an LA at our club, so she'd watch at rally etc and talk to people about going up if they demonstrated being capable.

I do tend to struggle a bit in straight dressage, but with jumping mixed in my horses are usually in the placings, so either ht or ct. It is easier to train your jumping a level higher without being scruitinised constantly.

Whilst I agree with the theory of training a level higher, it's against the LA rules in a way and you do leave yourself open to being spot assessed up, though I'm seeing less and less of that these days.
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2655205 is a reply to message #2655194 ] Mon, 21 May 2012 08:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Mac  
Messages: 22516
Registered: October 2005
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
ponymad wrote on Mon, 21 May 2012 07:42

Can't say I have ever had an opportunity to train at the higher level for very long... We have an LA at our club, so she'd watch at rally etc and talk to people about going up if they demonstrated being capable.

I do tend to struggle a bit in straight dressage, but with jumping mixed in my horses are usually in the placings, so either ht or ct. It is easier to train your jumping a level higher without being scruitinised constantly.

Whilst I agree with the theory of training a level higher, it's against the LA rules in a way and you do leave yourself open to being spot assessed up, though I'm seeing less and less of that these days.





in what way ? Confused

whilst there are 'rules' in regards to level assessing, it also requires practical application, common sense and a good knowledge of the HRCAV rules and principles, to ensure all assessments are done fairly and appropriately to each individual.

personally, I will NEVER assess or verify anyone during a rally, or at any time where they are receiving instruction - IMO that is totally unfair, as we all ride better in those circumstances, compared to when we're competing.

plus, as a dressage judge and experienced (flat & jumping) coach, I often look at the requirements stipulated for each level (all disciplines) and then look in amazement at some of the levels combinations are assessed at, and they're worlds apart. Sad



Re: competing at a higher level [message #2655243 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Mon, 21 May 2012 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  ponymad  is currently offline ponymad  
Messages: 3070
Registered: August 2007
Location: Bulla & Broadford
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
She didn't assess verify at rally, just have a quiet word to people who she observed. A nudge per say that they are capable of doing higher than they are.

I compete a lot and see a huge difference in combinations. I also do see a difference in metro vs country. Metro tend to either be under assessed or maybe because there's so many combinations, just take longer to place and point up. It seems more at the country clubs that people are of a higher level sooner, though the level 1 and 2 seem to be better suited in country than metro, if I make any sense?

I know my last ever level 4 dressage on my QH I was made to feel like a cheat as he got 80%. It was the best test we had ever done and we led the field by a mile. I was happy because we'd done so well and pointed up with a bang. But standing waiting for presentations the comments people were making about me were just horrible. So I can see why people go up, to avoid the snide comments.
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2655680 is a reply to message #2655243 ] Mon, 21 May 2012 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Rockstar  is currently offline Rockstar  
Messages: 545
Registered: September 2010
Location: Seville Equestrian Club (...
Level 1
I've always been assessed at the level I'm training at (by a few differnt LAs). Confused OH (on a lovely young warmblood) was assessed L3, when he was actually training (with this horse) at more like L5/4, so didn't compete for a year. I agree with training a level (at least) above your what your competing, but makes it hard when LAs assess you at the level your training (reasonably competently) at.

I've now just pointed up to Level 1, but am certainly not training higher than that! Our lateral work is still fairly mediocre, as is our collected work. I think I'll be struggling to even ride the higher Level 1 tests. OH has pointed to L2 and the horse isn't strong enough in the back for consistent sitting trot, or strong enough in the hindquarters for the lengthening work. So it could be back to training for awhile for both of us... Cool

[Updated on: Mon, 21 May 2012 15:18]


Kerryn


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Re: competing at a higher level [message #2655708 is a reply to message #2646197 ] Mon, 21 May 2012 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  LadyMP  is currently offline LadyMP  
Messages: 63
Registered: April 2012
Level 4
I know someone who has a (barely Confused ) (EA) novice level horse, but she regularly competes in Elementary just for the fun of it.

Her horse looks stressed and uncomfortable doing the Elemntary tests, to the point where he has meltdowns during the test (i.e will start fizzing or spinning on the spot! and this is a gerenally quiet horse with no dirt!) Sad

It just makes me sad when I see riders overfacing their horses at competitions - whether it is jumping or dressage!

I agree with training the level above at home to what you want to ride at comps.

And I'm referring to EA comps - I've no experience competing HRCAV.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 May 2012 15:42]


Ask me to show you poetry in motion, and I will show you a horse - Anonymous
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2655729 is a reply to message #2655708 ] Mon, 21 May 2012 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  blackorlando  is currently offline blackorlando  
Messages: 3698
Registered: December 2005
Unstoppable, ungaggable, unzippable
I only know a couple of people competing above their level because they choose to. I am competing above my level not by choice but due to a written complaint to the hrcav about my assessed level by another member and so i was assessed up. Now I am destined to spend the rest of my years struggling to crack 50% in a dressage test Rolls Eyes

But whatever, if people are so threatened by me and my fantastic riding then Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2655905 is a reply to message #2655243 ] Mon, 21 May 2012 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  chopin  is currently offline chopin  
Messages: 6245
Registered: March 2011
This computer will self destruct in 10 posts
ponymad wrote on Mon, 21 May 2012 09:23

She didn't assess verify at rally, just have a quiet word to people who she observed. A nudge per say that they are capable of doing higher than they are.

I compete a lot and see a huge difference in combinations. I also do see a difference in metro vs country. Metro tend to either be under assessed or maybe because there's so many combinations, just take longer to place and point up. It seems more at the country clubs that people are of a higher level sooner, though the level 1 and 2 seem to be better suited in country than metro, if I make any sense?

I know my last ever level 4 dressage on my QH I was made to feel like a cheat as he got 80%. It was the best test we had ever done and we led the field by a mile. I was happy because we'd done so well and pointed up with a bang. But standing waiting for presentations the comments people were making about me were just horrible. So I can see why people go up, to avoid the snide comments.



we saw that happen to a PC kid, her pony had been a turd for a while, she put some work in obviously, got a really high score at an event and everyone was bitching about her. Me being a big mouth shut a few people up saying we had seen them compete and they were usually last or eliminated. The judge only sees that test that day, and so do some of the other competitors. Well done to you for doing so well on your QH Very Happy
Re: competing at a higher level [message #2657562 is a reply to message #2655905 ] Wed, 23 May 2012 14:21 Go to previous message
  ellabw6  is currently offline ellabw6  
Messages: 2397
Registered: January 2012
Stark, Raving Bonkers
I don't know I can sort of see both sides of this situation.

I found it very hard to get a good placing in the dressage phase when I was eventing at Prelim level as there were SO many competitors. Not sure how true it is but my then instructor said there are quite a few people that "sit" at that level because they don't want to go higher and as a result can pretty much do the tests with their eyes shut.

Could just be her form of consolation as my horse was lacklustre at best in the dressage arena Rolls Eyes

However, I did end up moving to Novice level tests eventually and found my placings increased as well Smile I cannot say I was training higher than Novice at the time but it was nice to do something different and I enjoyed myself.

On the other hand I can imagine it is frustrating for the judges and other competitors looking and waiting for someone who is clearly pushing their horse through something which is out of either or both of their depths.


The horse through all its trials has preserved the sweetness of paradise in its blood.
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