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The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643092] Mon, 07 May 2012 09:17 Go to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Seems alot of threads about this lately, and alot of confusion/misunderstanding

Just found this article for another thread, and think it shows alot of relevant, recent studies and information

Equine Gastric Ulcers
Using Feeding Management to Reduce Their Incidence and Severity

by Dr Nerida Richards

Equine gastric ulcer syndrome (EGUS) is a major equine health problem worldwide. Some studies have reported an incidence of ulcers in performance horses in excess of 90% of horses training. [B]A more recent study conducted in Western Australia found 53% of horses had ulcers[/B].
Ulcers negatively and sometimes severely affect a horse’s ability to perform. They cause pain and discomfort, reduce a horse’s appetite which in turn limits its capacity to maintain bodyweight and lead to the development of vices including windsucking and crib biting.

While gastric ulcers have long been recognised as a major health concern there seemingly wasn’t much progress made in preventing them in performance horses. New research conducted in Australia and the USA is however starting to shine some light on how ulcers can be avoided.

What are Gastric Ulcers

Gastric ulcers are lesions that are found in the stomach of horses. The horses stomach is made up of 2 major regions, the upper ‘squamous’ area and the lower ‘glandular’ area. The majority of ulcers in adult performance horses occur either in the squamous area or at the junction of the squamaous and glandular regions.

It is thought that the lack of buffering and protection from gastric acids in the upper squamous area of the stomach is what makes it more prone to ulceration when compared to the lower glandular area which secretes mucous to protect itself from the gastric acids that are continuously secreted into the stomach.


Why do gastric ulcers occur

Gastric ulcers are a ‘mulit-factorial’ disease, meaning they are caused by many things. The following factors have been identified as possible causes of gastric ulcers:

Training – horses in training are known to have a higher incidence and also more severe gastric ulceration than horses not in work. In a recent study it was reported that the risk of developing moderate to severe gastric ulceration increase 1.7 times for every week that a horses was in training (Lester et al. 2008).

Training location – in thoroughbreds, horses that were exercised on a track on the property where they lived had 3.3 times less chance of having gastric ulcers (Lester et al. 2008).

Turnout/paddock time – horses that were given access to some turnout time were less likely to develop ulcers (Lester et al. 2008).

Turnout time with paddock mates – horses turned out with other horses are even less likely to develop ulcers than horses turned out alone (Lester et al. 2008).

Stress/nervousness – talkback radio playing in stables was found to increase the likelihood of thoroughbred horses developing ulcers, suggesting stress is a risk factor for ulcers (Lester et al. 2008).

Exercise on an empty stomach – as a horse exercises the pressure inside the stomach increases which forces the highly acidic gastric contents from the glandular area up into the unprotected squamous area (Lorenzo-Figueras et al. 2002). Exercising horses on a close to empty stomach (as would be the case in horses exercised after an overnight fast) makes it is easy for the acidic contents of the stomach to be pushed up into the squamous upper region of the stomach where it can cause ulceration.

Forage type – lucerne hay appears to have a protective effect on the equine stomach and appears to reduce the incidence of gastric ulcers in horses (Nadeau et al. 2000; Lybbert 2007).

Feeding Frequency – feed deprivation such as might occur during transport and long periods between meals lowers the pH in the equine stomach and increases the risk of gastric ulceration (Murray 1994).

Non-Steroidal Anti-inflammatory Drugs (NSAID) – drugs like phenylbutazone have been shown to increase the risk of ulcers, particularly in the glandular region of the stomach.




How can feeding management reducing the risk

Reducing the risk of gastric ulcers is not just a matter of changing one or two things and hoping it works. You need to assess your horse management systems and make changes wherever your horses are exposed to one of the above risk factors. Some feeding management practices that may help reduce the incidence and severity of gastric ulcers are:

Don’t exercise horses on an empty stomach – providing a small meal of lucerne hay prior to exercise will:
1. Help to stop the acidic contents from the glandular region of the stomach splashing up into the squamous region where it can cause ulcers;
2. Provide a buffering effect by causing the horse to produce saliva while it is chewing the hay and through the buffering effect of lucerne hay.

Provide a small meal of lucerne hay immediately following exercise – the Western Australian study which found horses trained off site had a higher incidence of gastric ulcers suggests that the time taken to return home following training and thus time between the completion of training and breakfast and perhaps the stress associated with travelling is increasing the incidence of ulcers. Providing a meal of lucerne following training will again help buffer the horse’s stomach and protect it from gastric ulceration.

Provide turnout time (with paddock mates where possible) as often as possible
– paddock turnout will help to reduce a horses stress level and if pasture is available will provide the horse with an opportunity to graze, and thus continuously produce saliva to help buffer the stomach.

Provide regular small meals and constant access to hay – allowing the horse to feed continuously during the day and night will help to reduce the likelihood of gastric ulcers developing. Divide the horses daily concentrate ration into as many meals as you can to be fed during the day and evening and provide hay (preferably not all as lucerne hay, some grass hay will provide variety in the diet and keep the horses protein intake in check).
If you are travelling long distances with your horse take regular breaks to provide small meals during the trip. Providing hay in a hay net will also provide the horse with an opportunity to continue eating during transport (if the hay is dusty dampen it down).
If you are concerned about the horse’s gutfill leading into a competition, reduce the amount of hay you are feeding for 2 days leading up to an event. However be careful not to reduce total forage intake to less than 1% bodyweight per day.

Using these feeding management strategies in combination with strategies to reduce stress and the impact of NSAID drugs will help to reduce a horse’s risk of developing gastric ulcers.


If your horse already has ulcers you must treat them

While one study has shown that feeding lucerne hay has been shown to reduce the severity of ulcers already present in horses and long periods of pasture turnout will sometimes allow a horse to resolve gastric ulcer issues, if your horse already has ulcers you must treat them with a registered ulcer treatment. Talk to your vet about the best treatment regime for your horses
.

And to add

TREATMENT

Once ulcers have been suspected or diagnosed they must be HEALED.

This is done via Veterinary prescribed medications such as Gastrozole or Omoguard

ADDITIONAL PREVENTION

Additionally to mentioned above, ulcer preventatives may include, and are not limited to

Tuffrock Conditioner
Tuffrock GI Liquid
Bi-carb soda
Marshmellow Root
Slippery Elm bark
Whey Isolates
Yoghurt
Khonkes Gastrocoat
Alka Pellets
And many others


[Updated on: Mon, 07 May 2012 09:19]

Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643095 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Also to clarify that grains often get the blame for ulcers.

While the starch content of grain (particularly those with lower digestible starch ie barley and corn) can be an issue...where grain gets most of the blame with ulcers is because (for the most part).........

Example race horses, fed copious amounts of grain, very little roughage, no grazing, high stress. So obviously high grain low roughage diets can cause ulcers...therefore often people blame the grain itself rather than the rest of the situation

So, while grain can cause ulcer issues to SOME horses, more often than not, its the grain v roughage of the diet thats the issue rather than the grain itself Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 07 May 2012 09:22]

Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643099 is a reply to message #2643095 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  BindiS  is currently offline BindiS  
Messages: 1013
Registered: February 2007
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Love it, thanks Grouch! Smile


If there's discretion that you've not abandoned now's the time.
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643100 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  sgierveld  is currently offline sgierveld  
Messages: 606
Registered: September 2010
Location: Vic MGA
Level 1 - Advanced
I know this thread is about gastric ulcers, but... How common are ulcers further along the digestive tract? I'm asking because feeds like Alkapellets talk about reducing acidity in the hind gut, but this wouldn't help for gastric ulcers!
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643108 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  gohorsego  
Messages: 214
Registered: October 2011
Level 2
My ulcer prone horse is fine with grain but mollasses and spring grass has always seamed to aggrivate the ulcers this led to the belief that fructose was the trigger in this particular case.
He is now on a diet of no added sugars which is suitable for lamanitic horses and he is thriving,
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643116 is a reply to message #2643100 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
sgierveld wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 09:29

I know this thread is about gastric ulcers, but... How common are ulcers further along the digestive tract? I'm asking because feeds like Alkapellets talk about reducing acidity in the hind gut, but this wouldn't help for gastric ulcers!



See I find this confusing with the Alka

To my knowledge they are possibly talking about Hind Gut Acidosis (which again is excess acid in this region of the digestive tract)

Now also to my knowledge KER Equisure is the ONLY product on the market that can target this area, due to it being "coated" to avoid digestion in the stomach/foregut

Now, to reach the hindgut intact, is no mean feat for a product of this nature, now unless I have read incorrectly, or dont have my head around it fully...Alka pellets are not coated, therefore I would conclude they do not in fact reach the hind gut to combat hind gut acidosis (could be wrong here)

Where they would work, is in the stomach and foregut region...they are oat hulls and bicarbonates...which the oat hulls would soothe mucus membranes, and the bicarbonates is alkaline (Alka) meaning it would neuralise any excess stomach acid

Bicarb is also used alot in human ant-acid medications for indigestion/reflux, again, because being alkaline in makeup, neutralise acid

Happy to stand corrected on the Alka Pellets, as Ive only had a brief read about them....and drew my own conclusions


Notes from KER Re: Equisure

As researchers delved into this possibility, they were confronted with a frustrating
problem almost immediately. The site of fermentation in the horse, collectively
composed of the cecum and colon, is located at the end of the digestive tract
rather than near the start like the cow's rumen. Therefore, in order to reach the
horse's hindgut, a buffer must withstand passage through the stomach and small
intestine.
Regrettably, the enzymes secreted in these organs are not particularly
hospitable to buffers. By the time an ordinary buffer reaches the hindgut, it loses
its efficacy
. Researchers went back to the drawing board and found the answer, a
time-released buffer.

[Updated on: Mon, 07 May 2012 10:08]

Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643462 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  LadyMP  is currently offline LadyMP  
Messages: 63
Registered: April 2012
Level 4
My OTTB mare is prone to stomach ulcers.

I bought my TB mare (Lady) straight off the track and had my vet give her a check over once I got her home, had her teeth done and got her treated for gastric ulcers.

After she had finished the vets treatment for the ulcers, I wasn't 100% happy with how she was doing, and suspected they hadn't cleared up entirely, so after some thorough research I started her on slippery elm bark powder (SEBP). Within a week she was eating much better and seemed happier!

Once the 1kg bag of SEBP ran out I didn't worry about continuing it, as she seemed well and truly healed.

Fast forward 4 months and I moved her to a new agistment (private paddock), then a week later took her to a comp in Albury (a 3 1/2 hr trip), then the following weekend took her to another comp....

Within 2 weeks of the second comp Lady started to go off her feed, and would only eat hay Sad
I suspected that she may have had her ulcers come back (due to stress??) and so I got some more SEBP... And within a week she is eating like normal again!

I think after all this I'll just keep her on the SEBP full time. She lost probably 50-100kg due to not eating (she is not an easy horse to keep weight on, as she barely eats when she is away at comps, or even at home if there is a lot going on, she wont eat!! Twisted Evil )

Annnnyway thanks for the informative post Groucho - I like to keep up to date on ulcers so I can look after my mare in the best possible way...


Ask me to show you poetry in motion, and I will show you a horse - Anonymous
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643518 is a reply to message #2643116 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  sgierveld  is currently offline sgierveld  
Messages: 606
Registered: September 2010
Location: Vic MGA
Level 1 - Advanced
Groucho wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 09:52

sgierveld wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 09:29

I know this thread is about gastric ulcers, but... How common are ulcers further along the digestive tract? I'm asking because feeds like Alkapellets talk about reducing acidity in the hind gut, but this wouldn't help for gastric ulcers!



See I find this confusing with the Alka

To my knowledge they are possibly talking about Hind Gut Acidosis (which again is excess acid in this region of the digestive tract)

Now also to my knowledge KER Equisure is the ONLY product on the market that can target this area, due to it being "coated" to avoid digestion in the stomach/foregut

Now, to reach the hindgut intact, is no mean feat for a product of this nature, now unless I have read incorrectly, or dont have my head around it fully...Alka pellets are not coated, therefore I would conclude they do not in fact reach the hind gut to combat hind gut acidosis (could be wrong here)

Where they would work, is in the stomach and foregut region...they are oat hulls and bicarbonates...which the oat hulls would soothe mucus membranes, and the bicarbonates is alkaline (Alka) meaning it would neuralise any excess stomach acid

Bicarb is also used alot in human ant-acid medications for indigestion/reflux, again, because being alkaline in makeup, neutralise acid

Happy to stand corrected on the Alka Pellets, as Ive only had a brief read about them....and drew my own conclusions


Notes from KER Re: Equisure

As researchers delved into this possibility, they were confronted with a frustrating
problem almost immediately. The site of fermentation in the horse, collectively
composed of the cecum and colon, is located at the end of the digestive tract
rather than near the start like the cow's rumen. Therefore, in order to reach the
horse's hindgut, a buffer must withstand passage through the stomach and small
intestine.
Regrettably, the enzymes secreted in these organs are not particularly
hospitable to buffers. By the time an ordinary buffer reaches the hindgut, it loses
its efficacy
. Researchers went back to the drawing board and found the answer, a
time-released buffer.

That confused me too! People who have had gastric ulcer problems in their horses seem happy with the Alkapellets, so maybe just bad marketing? Anyway, thanks for the info Groucho!
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643622 is a reply to message #2643518 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
sgierveld wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 16:00

Groucho wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 09:52

sgierveld wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 09:29

I know this thread is about gastric ulcers, but... How common are ulcers further along the digestive tract? I'm asking because feeds like Alkapellets talk about reducing acidity in the hind gut, but this wouldn't help for gastric ulcers!



See I find this confusing with the Alka

To my knowledge they are possibly talking about Hind Gut Acidosis (which again is excess acid in this region of the digestive tract)

Now also to my knowledge KER Equisure is the ONLY product on the market that can target this area, due to it being "coated" to avoid digestion in the stomach/foregut

Now, to reach the hindgut intact, is no mean feat for a product of this nature, now unless I have read incorrectly, or dont have my head around it fully...Alka pellets are not coated, therefore I would conclude they do not in fact reach the hind gut to combat hind gut acidosis (could be wrong here)

Where they would work, is in the stomach and foregut region...they are oat hulls and bicarbonates...which the oat hulls would soothe mucus membranes, and the bicarbonates is alkaline (Alka) meaning it would neuralise any excess stomach acid

Bicarb is also used alot in human ant-acid medications for indigestion/reflux, again, because being alkaline in makeup, neutralise acid

Happy to stand corrected on the Alka Pellets, as Ive only had a brief read about them....and drew my own conclusions


Notes from KER Re: Equisure

As researchers delved into this possibility, they were confronted with a frustrating
problem almost immediately. The site of fermentation in the horse, collectively
composed of the cecum and colon, is located at the end of the digestive tract
rather than near the start like the cow's rumen. Therefore, in order to reach the
horse's hindgut, a buffer must withstand passage through the stomach and small
intestine.
Regrettably, the enzymes secreted in these organs are not particularly
hospitable to buffers. By the time an ordinary buffer reaches the hindgut, it loses
its efficacy
. Researchers went back to the drawing board and found the answer, a
time-released buffer.

That confused me too! People who have had gastric ulcer problems in their horses seem happy with the Alkapellets, so maybe just bad marketing? Anyway, thanks for the info Groucho!



For stomach ulcers they would be quite fine (for use in the stomach and foregut)

Its when it starts talking about hind gut acidosis, that it loses me.....

Unless Im missing something
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643636 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  leec  is currently offline leec  
Messages: 1401
Registered: June 2010
Completely Insane
Thanks Grouch, very informative post.
You're a wealth of knowledge and it's good to have people like you share that knowledge Smile
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643645 is a reply to message #2643636 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
leec wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 18:03

Thanks Grouch, very informative post.
You're a wealth of knowledge and it's good to have people like you share that knowledge Smile



Not really I just read alot and share what isnt crapola Laughing
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643876 is a reply to message #2643645 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  chelleyau is currently online chelleyau  
Messages: 419
Registered: January 2012
Level 1
Groucho wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 18:08

leec wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 18:03

Thanks Grouch, very informative post.
You're a wealth of knowledge and it's good to have people like you share that knowledge Smile



Not really I just read alot and share what isnt crapola Laughing



What i find strange is that I have used 3 different vets thus far and 1st one says that ulcers can only be found via blood work

2nd says no blood test will confirm them its all about about trying the treatments to see if they work

3rd said but scope but not conclusive because of how long a horses gut is and you will never really know for sure but a breath test would could work
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2643943 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Mon, 07 May 2012 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Sanfrancisco  
Messages: 8564
Registered: October 2005
Location: Zip Zilch RC
Its my party and I'll hoo haa if I want to

Sorry but....


Stress/nervousness – talkback radio playing in stables was found to increase the likelihood of thoroughbred horses developing ulcers, suggesting stress is a risk factor for ulcers (Lester et al. 2008).


WHAT THE HELL!!!????


Laughing
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2644004 is a reply to message #2643943 ] Tue, 08 May 2012 05:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Shari_Brown wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 22:44

Sorry but....


Stress/nervousness – talkback radio playing in stables was found to increase the likelihood of thoroughbred horses developing ulcers, suggesting stress is a risk factor for ulcers (Lester et al. 2008).


WHAT THE HELL!!!????


Laughing



Ive actually heard this alot over the years... Smile


I guess its like people, my OH has to have radio or TV (noise) on at all times...he finds it soothing, my on the other hand cant stand constant noise..it stresses me out... Confused

[Updated on: Tue, 08 May 2012 06:13]

Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2644078 is a reply to message #2643116 ] Tue, 08 May 2012 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Margie  
Messages: 670
Registered: June 2008
Level 1 - Advanced
Groucho wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 09:52

sgierveld wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 09:29

I know this thread is about gastric ulcers, but... How common are ulcers further along the digestive tract? I'm asking because feeds like Alkapellets talk about reducing acidity in the hind gut, but this wouldn't help for gastric ulcers!



See I find this confusing with the Alka

To my knowledge they are possibly talking about Hind Gut Acidosis (which again is excess acid in this region of the digestive tract)

Now also to my knowledge KER Equisure is the ONLY product on the market that can target this area, due to it being "coated" to avoid digestion in the stomach/foregut

Now, to reach the hindgut intact, is no mean feat for a product of this nature, now unless I have read incorrectly, or dont have my head around it fully...Alka pellets are not coated, therefore I would conclude they do not in fact reach the hind gut to combat hind gut acidosis (could be wrong here)

Where they would work, is in the stomach and foregut region...they are oat hulls and bicarbonates...which the oat hulls would soothe mucus membranes, and the bicarbonates is alkaline (Alka) meaning it would neuralise any excess stomach acid

Bicarb is also used alot in human ant-acid medications for indigestion/reflux, again, because being alkaline in makeup, neutralise acid

Happy to stand corrected on the Alka Pellets, as Ive only had a brief read about them....and drew my own conclusions


Notes from KER Re: Equisure

As researchers delved into this possibility, they were confronted with a frustrating
problem almost immediately. The site of fermentation in the horse, collectively
composed of the cecum and colon, is located at the end of the digestive tract
rather than near the start like the cow's rumen. Therefore, in order to reach the
horse's hindgut, a buffer must withstand passage through the stomach and small
intestine.
Regrettably, the enzymes secreted in these organs are not particularly
hospitable to buffers. By the time an ordinary buffer reaches the hindgut, it loses
its efficacy
. Researchers went back to the drawing board and found the answer, a
time-released buffer.



From an email received from Faye at Martinag (the maker of Alkapellets):

Marg,

We feel our product is so effective because the ammonia bicarbonate that is left after the ammoniation process has taken place, is not only on the fibre source readily available to help the front end of the digestive system, but it is also impregnated into the oat hull so does make its way into the hind gut to create a more alkaline environment for the fibre digesting microbes to flourish.
Thank-you for your continued support, and as you can see I did speak to Nerrida and forwarded our results to her at Feed XL hence her addition to the list of feeds that help with ulcers.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need any clarification.
Best regards
Faye


I'm totally useless where Facebook is concerned but if you do get on there you could also refer to their page to read what users are saying.
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2644079 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Tue, 08 May 2012 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Thanks Margie

That cleared that up!

Very interesting Smile Smile
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2644082 is a reply to message #2644079 ] Tue, 08 May 2012 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Margie  
Messages: 670
Registered: June 2008
Level 1 - Advanced
You're welcome Grouch. As you can probably gather, I love Alkapellets Very Happy
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2644085 is a reply to message #2644082 ] Tue, 08 May 2012 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Margie wrote on Tue, 08 May 2012 08:37

You're welcome Grouch. As you can probably gather, I love Alkapellets Very Happy


They do look a good, cheap, effective product...

I havent pursued them further because of my "confusion"..but looks a good Smile Smile

[Updated on: Tue, 08 May 2012 08:39]

Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2645736 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Wed, 09 May 2012 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr05hMmLCY4

This is a very interesting video

It shows how you can test your horse for ulcers...

He goes onto explain back issues that come with ulcers...which may be incorrectly diagnosed as Chiropractic issues (although he mentions checking for chiropractic issues first)

Thoughts?
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2645782 is a reply to message #2645736 ] Wed, 09 May 2012 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Katie_Q  is currently offline Katie_Q  
Messages: 85
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Level 3
Ill try it on our horses tomorrow. Good video though!
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2645800 is a reply to message #2645736 ] Wed, 09 May 2012 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  sgierveld  is currently offline sgierveld  
Messages: 606
Registered: September 2010
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Groucho wrote on Wed, 09 May 2012 17:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr05hMmLCY4

This is a very interesting video

It shows how you can test your horse for ulcers...

He goes onto explain back issues that come with ulcers...which may be incorrectly diagnosed as Chiropractic issues (although he mentions checking for chiropractic issues first)

Thoughts?

Hmm, definitely looks interesting! I'd like to see it in practice - anyone know their horse has ulcers and want to try? Razz
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2645814 is a reply to message #2644004 ] Wed, 09 May 2012 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  coco09  
Messages: 379
Registered: November 2009
Level 1
Groucho wrote on Tue, 08 May 2012 05:52

Shari_Brown wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 22:44

Sorry but....


Stress/nervousness – talkback radio playing in stables was found to increase the likelihood of thoroughbred horses developing ulcers, suggesting stress is a risk factor for ulcers (Lester et al. 2008).


WHAT THE HELL!!!????


Laughing



Ive actually heard this alot over the years... Smile


I guess its like people, my OH has to have radio or TV (noise) on at all times...he finds it soothing, my on the other hand cant stand constant noise..it stresses me out... Confused


That's an ADHD trait having music on in the background!

[Updated on: Wed, 09 May 2012 18:57]

Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2645823 is a reply to message #2645736 ] Wed, 09 May 2012 18:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  MissMaddy  
Messages: 2776
Registered: August 2006
Location: hopefully one later this ...
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
That's quite an interesting video, I really felt for that last horse, whether ulcers or other, he looked very sore poor boy.
I have always suspected ulcers in my tb, but a course of gastrozole made little to no difference in his appetite of body condition. I just resigned myself to him being a poor doer/high maintenance boy. I'll be interested to try this on him, and my new horse who has soreness issues to see if either react.
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2645905 is a reply to message #2645814 ] Wed, 09 May 2012 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  sgierveld  is currently offline sgierveld  
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Location: Vic MGA
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coco09 wrote on Wed, 09 May 2012 18:54

Groucho wrote on Tue, 08 May 2012 05:52

Shari_Brown wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 22:44

Sorry but....


Stress/nervousness – talkback radio playing in stables was found to increase the likelihood of thoroughbred horses developing ulcers, suggesting stress is a risk factor for ulcers (Lester et al. 2008).


WHAT THE HELL!!!????


Laughing



Ive actually heard this alot over the years... Smile


I guess its like people, my OH has to have radio or TV (noise) on at all times...he finds it soothing, my on the other hand cant stand constant noise..it stresses me out... Confused


That's an ADHD trait having music on in the background!


Then all teenagers these days have ADHD lol!
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2648512 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Sun, 13 May 2012 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  susieq  
Messages: 3152
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Location: HRTAV
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
Just an update on my boy in case it will help anyone. I have been treating him for the last 6 weeks with gastropell forte and although he is eating all his feed and is fat and healthy looking he is still not his happy self. After a 30 min conversation with the vet who knows the horse and gave me all the details as per "doctor Grouch" we are now going to treat him for hind gut ulcers. The symtoms it seems is an adverse reaction to either grooming or touching the under belly and also a swollen sheath.
Well with my boy you do not go any where near the under belly. Treatment starts on Monday so I will let you all know what the result is after a week or so.


I can pick em but I can't ride em
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2648902 is a reply to message #2648512 ] Sun, 13 May 2012 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
susieq wrote on Sun, 13 May 2012 11:26

Just an update on my boy in case it will help anyone. I have been treating him for the last 6 weeks with gastropell forte and although he is eating all his feed and is fat and healthy looking he is still not his happy self. After a 30 min conversation with the vet who knows the horse and gave me all the details as per "doctor Grouch" we are now going to treat him for hind gut ulcers. The symtoms it seems is an adverse reaction to either grooming or touching the under belly and also a swollen sheath.
Well with my boy you do not go any where near the under belly. Treatment starts on Monday so I will let you all know what the result is after a week or so.



Thats very interesting and somewhat backs up what the video said....about "sore points"

I wonder now, how much chronic back issues, like those we see here...where people go to all lengths via chiros, massagers, saddle fits, etc etc...are really symptoms of ulcers?

Id not thought to look at the physical "soreness" symptoms before, sure the obvious symptoms but not the back/girth/wither type symptoms

All interesting Smile Smile
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2659256 is a reply to message #2648902 ] Fri, 25 May 2012 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  China bLue  
Messages: 3100
Registered: September 2006
Location: Wyena & Seymour
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
Groucho wrote on Sun, 13 May 2012 19:15

susieq wrote on Sun, 13 May 2012 11:26

Just an update on my boy in case it will help anyone. I have been treating him for the last 6 weeks with gastropell forte and although he is eating all his feed and is fat and healthy looking he is still not his happy self. After a 30 min conversation with the vet who knows the horse and gave me all the details as per "doctor Grouch" we are now going to treat him for hind gut ulcers. The symtoms it seems is an adverse reaction to either grooming or touching the under belly and also a swollen sheath.
Well with my boy you do not go any where near the under belly. Treatment starts on Monday so I will let you all know what the result is after a week or so.



Thats very interesting and somewhat backs up what the video said....about "sore points"

I wonder now, how much chronic back issues, like those we see here...where people go to all lengths via chiros, massagers, saddle fits, etc etc...are really symptoms of ulcers?

Id not thought to look at the physical "soreness" symptoms before, sure the obvious symptoms but not the back/girth/wither type symptoms

All interesting Smile Smile


Im finding this all very interesting, my mare who i have had chiroed, bioscanned, acupuctured, bought a new saddle for and had it fitted numerous times, shows absolutley CLASSIC symtoms as per the video!

When turned out in the back paddock the symptoms decrease dramatically, when in work ( and in the past as we were on agistment in a small paddock woth no grazing and on grain) she gets gradually worse and worse!!!

I can wait till i can ride again so i can see if treating ulcers makes a difference!! Ill have to do a test on her and video - but when at her worst last year when in work she would have looked just like that last horse, she is not as bad atm as she has been turned out in a group paddock on pasture since november.

Apart from treating with gastrozole what would be a good maintenence feed to help prevent? esp hind gut as she always had alot of symptoms around the back end?
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2659677 is a reply to message #2648902 ] Fri, 25 May 2012 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  susieq  
Messages: 3152
Registered: October 2010
Location: HRTAV
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
Groucho wrote on Sun, 13 May 2012 19:15

susieq wrote on Sun, 13 May 2012 11:26

Just an update on my boy in case it will help anyone. I have been treating him for the last 6 weeks with gastropell forte and although he is eating all his feed and is fat and healthy looking he is still not his happy self. After a 30 min conversation with the vet who knows the horse and gave me all the details as per "doctor Grouch" we are now going to treat him for hind gut ulcers. The symtoms it seems is an adverse reaction to either grooming or touching the under belly and also a swollen sheath.
Well with my boy you do not go any where near the under belly. Treatment starts on Monday so I will let you all know what the result is after a week or so.



Thats very interesting and somewhat backs up what the video said....about "sore points"

I wonder now, how much chronic back issues, like those we see here...where people go to all lengths via chiros, massagers, saddle fits, etc etc...are really symptoms of ulcers?

Id not thought to look at the physical "soreness" symptoms before, sure the obvious symptoms but not the back/girth/wither type symptoms

All interesting Smile Smile

Well I'm going to throw another spanner in the works as my neighbours horse also has the sysmtoms like my boy but opted to get him scoped. Well it turns out that he had a severe infestation of bot larvae and that certain wormers were not affective anymore in our area. Shocked Vet also said that horse owners were treating for ulcers when it could be something else.
The only difference I can see is that my boy has maintained his weight however the neighbours horse was loosing so much condition.


I can pick em but I can't ride em
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2660801 is a reply to message #2643622 ] Sat, 26 May 2012 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  zippy  
Messages: 1128
Registered: June 2008
Location: south Gipps
Level 1 - Advanced



Notes from KER Re: Equisure

As researchers delved into this possibility, they were confronted with a frustrating
problem almost immediately. The site of fermentation in the horse, collectively
composed of the cecum and colon, is located at the end of the digestive tract
rather than near the start like the cow's rumen. Therefore, in order to reach the
horse's hindgut, a buffer must withstand passage through the stomach and small
intestine.
Regrettably, the enzymes secreted in these organs are not particularly
hospitable to buffers. By the time an ordinary buffer reaches the hindgut, it loses
its efficacy
. Researchers went back to the drawing board and found the answer, a
time-released buffer.[/quote]


The researchers are KER researchers aren't they? I would like to see independent research confirm the efficacy of the product... in house research like in-house regulation etc makes me a bit Confused Confused Confused Confused

The expert Vet's used are also the KER vets too I think Confused



"They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn it they outvoted me"

Nathaniel Lee, 1653-92, playwright on being committed to Bedlam"

I am soooooo horsey Bot Flies chase me.
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2663647 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Tue, 29 May 2012 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  rocket08  is currently offline rocket08  
Messages: 259
Registered: March 2009
Level 2
Just reading this thread and found it super interesting. I have had my horse for almost 4 years and in this time he was only 'sound' for the first 3 months until he was brought into hard work. I have tried everything, numerous chiros/massage therapists, saddle fits, new saddles, bio-scans, vet checks, x-rays. Pretty much there is no physical reason why he should not be sound.
He doesn't have the classic symptoms of ulcers, which is why I haven't considered them before today. I am getting the vet out tomorrow to start treating for them, fingers crossed!!

China Blue, very interested to hear how your mare went??
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2663913 is a reply to message #2645736 ] Wed, 30 May 2012 08:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Kasandy  
Messages: 1532
Registered: September 2007
Completely Insane
Groucho wrote on Wed, 09 May 2012 17:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr05hMmLCY4

This is a very interesting video

It shows how you can test your horse for ulcers...

He goes onto explain back issues that come with ulcers...which may be incorrectly diagnosed as Chiropractic issues (although he mentions checking for chiropractic issues first)

Thoughts?


I've had this method of looking for ulcers explained to me before.

It could explain "girthiness" and horses that appear to be "over sensitive" when being brushed.



Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2664770 is a reply to message #2660801 ] Wed, 30 May 2012 23:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  bizzibizzigirl  is currently offline bizzibizzigirl  
Messages: 1837
Registered: July 2008
Stark, Raving Bonkers
zippy wrote on Sat, 26 May 2012 19:34




Notes from KER Re: Equisure

As researchers delved into this possibility, they were confronted with a frustrating
problem almost immediately. The site of fermentation in the horse, collectively
composed of the cecum and colon, is located at the end of the digestive tract
rather than near the start like the cow's rumen. Therefore, in order to reach the
horse's hindgut, a buffer must withstand passage through the stomach and small
intestine.
Regrettably, the enzymes secreted in these organs are not particularly
hospitable to buffers. By the time an ordinary buffer reaches the hindgut, it loses
its efficacy
. Researchers went back to the drawing board and found the answer, a
time-released buffer.



Interestingly, my vet, who's a bit of a gut specialist, told me recently that Equishure is basically Bi-carb soda with some omegas added to it. Very expensive way to feed bicarb! Improbably won't go to the expense of it again. Cheaper from the supermarket....





The researchers are KER researchers aren't they? I would like to see independent research confirm the efficacy of the product... in house research like in-house regulation etc makes me a bit Confused Confused Confused Confused

The expert Vet's used are also the KER vets too I think Confused


[/quote]

[Updated on: Wed, 30 May 2012 23:18]


http://i40.tinypic.com/211nvwi.jpg
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2664789 is a reply to message #2645800 ] Thu, 31 May 2012 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  MandyE  
Messages: 10592
Registered: October 2005
Location: Hidden Valley
Out of my way, I am in the midst of a hoo haa monologue
sgierveld wrote on Wed, 09 May 2012 18:40

Groucho wrote on Wed, 09 May 2012 17:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr05hMmLCY4

This is a very interesting video

It shows how you can test your horse for ulcers...

He goes onto explain back issues that come with ulcers...which may be incorrectly diagnosed as Chiropractic issues (although he mentions checking for chiropractic issues first)

Thoughts?

Hmm, definitely looks interesting! I'd like to see it in practice - anyone know their horse has ulcers and want to try? Razz


Yes! When Ari's ulcers flared up after having bute for a swollen (kicked) sheath, he showed those symptoms in the video! Treated him with Ulcerguard, and have switched him to the Cool Fuel and three months on there are absolutely no signs of ulcers, his coat is fantastic, and the tightness he had in his back has gone.

My vet recommended a 'processed' feed when he was diagnosed, and the only one which was suitable to me, in terms of being as natural and minimally processed as possible, was the Cool Fuel as I knew it was mechanically extracted. It seems I intuitively picked the right thing to feed him with regard to the ulcers.

http://www.stanceequine.com.au/mediaroom_detail.php?CoolStan ce-benefits-61

Interestingly, now that I'm thinking about it, Gidget was very sensitive in the same areas which we had put down to chiropractic issues and saddle fit as she has changed in shape so much, but since being on the Cool Fuel she has become much more settled, and is way less reactive in those same areas. I was feeding her lucerne chaff, oats, and sunflower seeds, now I have reduced her oats by a 3rd, and added about a 3rd of the recommended daily amount of Cool Fuel.


index.php?t=getfile&id=582637&private=0

Manetheren Performance Horses and Dilute Warmbloods

Happy Hooves Natural Hoofcare - Barefoot Performance Trimming and Lameness Consultant
Diploma Equine Soundness 2010
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2664800 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Thu, 31 May 2012 05:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Not Copra Uh Oh

Laughing
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2664907 is a reply to message #2664800 ] Thu, 31 May 2012 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Titanium Tush  
Messages: 592
Registered: December 2008
Level 1
Some added info on ulcers. I found the pics interesting:

http://www.ranvet.com.au/research-and-development/gastric-ul ceration.htm
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2664913 is a reply to message #2664907 ] Thu, 31 May 2012 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Titanium Tush wrote on Thu, 31 May 2012 09:36

Some added info on ulcers. I found the pics interesting:

http://www.ranvet.com.au/research-and-development/gastric-ul ceration.htm



Surprised Wow!
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2665019 is a reply to message #2664913 ] Thu, 31 May 2012 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  girlknight  
Messages: 657
Registered: June 2009
Location: Bulla
Level 1 - Advanced
So how do we manage fatties that need to be shut up half the time in Spring so they don't get too fat? Sad

I am planning to shut up my boy every night in Spring as he gets too fat, and give him a "greedy steed" hay net so the couple of biscuits of hay last longer. But he will still be not eating for a few hours each night. Is this a recipe for ulcers?

Also he can't have lucerne as he is intolerant, so can't give him a mouthful of that before riding but I guess some oaten chaff before work would be better than nothing?

Always something to worry about! Confused
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2665168 is a reply to message #2643092 ] Thu, 31 May 2012 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  linksys  is currently offline linksys  
Messages: 1477
Registered: February 2009
Location: YVQHA
Completely Insane
That video was fantastic to watch!!!

your researching skills are fantastic, please dont EVER leave this forum !!!!!!
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2665175 is a reply to message #2665019 ] Thu, 31 May 2012 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21384
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
girlknight wrote on Thu, 31 May 2012 11:38

So how do we manage fatties that need to be shut up half the time in Spring so they don't get too fat? Sad

I am planning to shut up my boy every night in Spring as he gets too fat, and give him a "greedy steed" hay net so the couple of biscuits of hay last longer. But he will still be not eating for a few hours each night. Is this a recipe for ulcers?

Also he can't have lucerne as he is intolerant, so can't give him a mouthful of that before riding but I guess some oaten chaff before work would be better than nothing?

Always something to worry about! Confused



Maybe something like Gastrocoat or similar

Try and have the stomach at least somewhat "coated" even if there is no food in there?

Tricky situation

Oh and linksys that link popped up on Faceplant so I just had to post it here Smile Smile
Re: The Truth About Gastric Ulcers [message #2692987 is a reply to message #2643095 ] Wed, 04 July 2012 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
  tacle1  is currently offline tacle1  
Messages: 59
Registered: February 2009
Level 4
is equishure any good as a preventative post treatment for ulcers? People's experiences..?? Good investment or waste of $$?? Or any other preventatives out there that work well to keep ulcers away for good?? The minute my horse gets even the slightest bit stressed...HELLO ulcers!!! And yes, he is on a high forage diet (LOTS of hay), but he has no pick and no paddock buddies (unfortunately can't change this as much as I'd like to!). And no...he can't have lucerne as he developed an intolerance to it last year. Every time I've tried to gradually re-introduce it....BAM!! Swollen legs and intestinal upsets.
Pain in my ass. Note to self? Never, EVER get another bloody TB...too high maintenance lol! All I can say is the bugger is lucky I love him like he's my kid Laughing
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