| Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2674843] |
Tue, 12 June 2012 19:37  |
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Hi guys,
I have a 13yo thoroughbred gelding who is quite underweight, you can see all his ribs, his rump isn't round and his neck is dipped, he has recently been moved into a new paddock from one he didn't get fed to one now he has a bucket of oaten and lucerne chaff every morning with the best grass, aside from that, i am up at the agistment riding then feeding him 4 times a week, I feed him equibix, mare cubes, oaten and lucerne chaff with molasses, sunflower seeds, livamol and all rounder.
I've heard equijewel is good for fattening up but also heard it makes them hot?
please help me guys!!
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2674846 is a reply to message #2674843 ] |
Tue, 12 June 2012 19:41  |
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I'm feeding equijewel and it's not making my horse hot. Oil is great for putting on weight and there is definately no fizz, it's all fat.
Horses, horses, horses!
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2674902 is a reply to message #2674843 ] |
Tue, 12 June 2012 20:35 |
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I feed my boy pryde's easi result! He was thin when I first got him and it worked wonders, it has never made any of my horses hot! Would highly recommend it 
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2674905 is a reply to message #2674854 ] |
Tue, 12 June 2012 20:39 |
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| Irene.L wrote on Tue, 12 June 2012 19:52 |
I hope your not still riding him if he's so underweight? He needs to be fed the chosen hard feed every day, twice a day would be best. Chaff and grass is good, if you have a good doer. A horse in work needs more.
Is he rugged? What rugs? Getting hot or cold also can hinder weight gain
Rice bran oil is also the best choice, every horse I've ever owned has been on it and all are in constant show condition
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Im feeding ride bran oil at the moment but have fed veggie oil for many years. I will be honest I'm seeing any differences in the horses after changing to rice bran. I know rice bran oil is regarded as one of the best oils.
Horses, horses, horses!
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2674953 is a reply to message #2674843 ] |
Tue, 12 June 2012 21:22 |
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Hi, I have a young standy that was underweight when he was 3 - constantly worried about him - after the usual teeth, rugging, general health checks, trying all different types of feeds - found most success with soy meal & veg oil minus all the other expensive things I was feeding him. Like you, I was unable to feed him every day, but put 1/2 cup ea in with his oaten chaff 4 to 5 times a week. I was at an agistment centre with not a lot of good quality pasture available. I have been lucky and found a great property for him to agist at and we have never looked back. I think my horse's main issue was that he was young and at 17hh it took time for him to grow into his body. Having said that, there was a huge improvement after introducing the above 2 ingredients into his feeding routine. Ideally, a round bale of oaten would have been the most optimal feed for him - as advised to me by an elderly farming acquaintance - but it was not appropriate at the time. Good luck.
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2674960 is a reply to message #2674843 ] |
Tue, 12 June 2012 21:36 |
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What do the other horses in his paddock look like condition wise??
You sound young ... so im guessing you probably also have limited resources.
You need to feed him more but in a paddock full of other horses how are you making sure he is getting his food??? he really needs hay and a hard feed. To keep things simple and cost effective I would suggest you feed him at least 2 kg's of oats a day, 1 cup of oil and around 500gm's of lucerne chaff as a good starting point. I also would not stop riding him, keep him in work but if you are riding him hard then stop that and just take it easier on him for a while, but please keep working him, it will help him condition up and will stop him getting silly when he starts to feel and look better. I wouldnt worry about fizzing him atm ... his body will be using the energy to keep him warm and put condition back on his frame.
Ideally you can get him a seperate paddock ... it will be less stressful for him and he wont be competing, he will put condition on easier and you can put a round bale in with him which will also help the process along quicker.
Everyone wants happiness no one wants pain, Yet you cant have a Rainbow without the Rain!
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2674966 is a reply to message #2674843 ] |
Tue, 12 June 2012 21:44 |
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Yup, as has been said, hay hay and more hay! If he is that low he really needs ad lib hay (ie a round bale). Even if you can't do that, he still needs quite a lot of hay - if he's in a paddock with so many other horses, you are going to struggle. It will probably cost you less in the long run to pay a little more for a private paddock or at least one with less horses than to be putting heaps of hard feed in to him without being able to provide the roughage he needs. A bucket of chaff is not going to do all that much for him. If he can get ad lib hay, you can cut the chaff right back, even cut it out completely, and give him a smaller and more concentrated feed. There are any number of feeds out there that will put weight on him, but without providing adequate roughage it is going to take you a long time and cost you a lot of hard feed!
Good luck
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2674992 is a reply to message #2674843 ] |
Tue, 12 June 2012 22:09 |
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Feed veggie oil as mentioned already for putting weight on without the fizz. Calories (fat) only, no carbos. Canola is fine, 2 cups per day + lots and lots of hay. You may need to wean him onto it - not all horses like the taste initially.
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2675063 is a reply to message #2674843 ] |
Tue, 12 June 2012 23:29 |
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Lympia pellets are cheap but not much value from a nutritional point. I switched my TB who was light on when I got him to Hygain Tru Gain. More expensive but worth it. Beefed him up and no sillies and is in light flat work. I note that it's rice bran oil based so I might switch him to Pryde's Easi Sport and add the rice bran oil into the feed. Would be cheaper.
Agree with others - lots of hay, grass and lucerne hay. I think you might need to think about other agistment too. Something easier to get to the other 3 days as he really needs two feeds a day every day to start gaining good weight.
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2675069 is a reply to message #2674843 ] |
Tue, 12 June 2012 23:37 |
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Take it easy on the grass hay. It,s not high in nutritional value. It's mostly fibre. He will feel full and the hay will push through his system cleaning everything through with it. Definately worm him and have you rotated wormers in case of resistance. When I had thorobreds I liked to feed Coprice. I found it put weight on without fizz. Keep riding him so that you can stay on top of any silliness. If the other horses are fat the pasture should be adequate for filling him up. Do the others bully or worry him? I'd feed clover hay. I'd feed the clover hay first , then the hard feed so that it stays in his gut a while and he has time to digest and absorb the goodness. If he has pasture ad lib I'd go for quality feed rather than just huge amounts of grass hay.
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2675082 is a reply to message #2675069 ] |
Wed, 13 June 2012 00:17 |
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MissMaddy 
Messages: 2739
Registered: August 2006
Location: hopefully one later this ... |
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist. |
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You need to keep it simple, and make sure you're not just adding this feed and that because someone suggests it. This will result in a very unbalanced feed, plus often undesirable behaviour as a result.
To put on weight, you need to feed more energy than he is expending, so it's quite common for them to have more energy, and seem "hot". As others have suggested, oil is a great way to reduce this effect. I tend to find they can go a bit silly when they first start to gain weight, but once they even out my guys usually get their brain back.
If I want to put weight on a horse, I start with basics. First I give them lucerne and oaten hay (oaten hay I will keep upping until they either can't eat any more or are putting on weight, then up the lucerne in proportion to balance the calcium:phosphorus), then add in oats with a supplement (I generally stick with prydes as I find it the most palatable of those I've tried), and if still lacking, rice bran. This has worked pretty well for me so far, although I have one who is particularly difficult (and fussy  ) who also gets prydes bio mare cubes, and the oil is another option I often use.
As your boy is in a large group paddock, you can't be sure he's getting his own feed. My 22yo tb for example just gets through enough feed (hard feed and hay) to maintain an ok weight. He often goes back to his feeder later, so if he were in a group paddock he'd be very underweight and lacking. There are few horses he can share a paddock with over winter.
All my guys eat at such varying rates (and requirements), that I generally don't tend to put too many in together unless all good doers.
Not only does it get a bit feral (and dangerous if you have horses who don't respect your space and don't give a stuff about catching you in the cross fire of squabbles about food) at feed time, but someone would also always miss out. If your boy was say fed last, the boss horse may have finished before yours has really started, and he'd get pushed off his feed by those above as they finish.
Oh, and I generally feed grass hay only to the better doers as something to keep them occupied moreso than weight gain (although the wb mare looks at a blade of grass and expands currently  ). For weight gain I tend to rely more on oaten hay than anything.
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2675691 is a reply to message #2675120 ] |
Wed, 13 June 2012 16:15 |
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There's little nutrient value in any grass at this time of the year & 4 hard feeds per week isn't enough to maintain body condition on a TB, let alone a poor one, in work.
I'd guess there's a fair chance he's wormy & plenty of liklihood that he's harbouring encysted red worms so I'd use a tube of Equest paste now then 2 wks later & ideally, 2 wks after that to clear them right out.
I'd also be feeding a minimum 6kgs of hard feed whether it be oats (cheapest, easily digested, high energy) Nutri rice, rice bran, Trugain, any other proprietory brand or a combo. My 3yo TB who lost weight due to chronic infection has gained rapidly on 3kg oats; 3/High E; 2 Trugain with oaten chaff a biscuit of lucerne & next to no grass, whilst working lightly as a racehorse
Experience is something you gain just minutes after you could've used it!
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2675783 is a reply to message #2675069 ] |
Wed, 13 June 2012 17:46 |
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Groucho
Messages: 17282
Registered: September 2008 |
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it. |
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| winter95 wrote on Tue, 12 June 2012 23:37 |
Take it easy on the grass hay. It,s not high in nutritional value. It's mostly fibre. He will feel full and the hay will push through his system cleaning everything through with it. Definately worm him and have you rotated wormers in case of resistance. When I had thorobreds I liked to feed Coprice. I found it put weight on without fizz. Keep riding him so that you can stay on top of any silliness. If the other horses are fat the pasture should be adequate for filling him up. Do the others bully or worry him? I'd feed clover hay. I'd feed the clover hay first , then the hard feed so that it stays in his gut a while and he has time to digest and absorb the goodness. If he has pasture ad lib I'd go for quality feed rather than just huge amounts of grass hay.
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Where on earth did you get that information from?
Grass hay does not have high nutritional value? So therefore grass does not have high nutritional value?
Give me a break 
Why feed clover hay first? Its extremely high in protein and is a legume..its like feeding high amounts of lucerne hay
Depending on the variety of clover, it can also trigger hormonal issues, red clover is very high in estrogen and can make mares extremely hormonal, and stallions/geldings the same...
No legume (lucerne, clover, ticks, pulse, beans, lupins) should be fed in HUGE amounts, horses were not meant to eat legume in high amounts
Rough grass...yes...high amounts!
Why would you feed hay first and a hard feed second? A horses stomach is the size of a Coles shopping bag, is non elastic and empties when 3/4 full...
Ideally you want a hard feed first, so there is maximum uptake of nutrients from this, followed by ad lib grazing on either pasture, pasture hay, or cereal hay
Wow
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2675971 is a reply to message #2675691 ] |
Wed, 13 June 2012 21:32 |
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FULLTHROTTLEDASH
Messages: 1267
Registered: May 2010 |
Completely Insane |
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| Thelwell wrote on Wed, 13 June 2012 16:15 |
There's little nutrient value in any grass at this time of the year & 4 hard feeds per week isn't enough to maintain body condition on a TB, let alone a poor one, in work.
I'd guess there's a fair chance he's wormy & plenty of liklihood that he's harbouring encysted red worms so I'd use a tube of Equest paste now then 2 wks later & ideally, 2 wks after that to clear them right out.
I'd also be feeding a minimum 6kgs of hard feed whether it be oats (cheapest, easily digested, high energy) Nutri rice, rice bran, Trugain, any other proprietory brand or a combo. My 3yo TB who lost weight due to chronic infection has gained rapidly on 3kg oats; 3/High E; 2 Trugain with oaten chaff a biscuit of lucerne & next to no grass, whilst working lightly as a racehorse
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Poor bloody horse 6kg of hard feed  and one biscuit of lucerne. Ideal ration for digestive problems including colic and ulcers, as well mental issues.
Reminds me of the trainers i visited in ALbury last weekend they all fed around the six to eight kilo mark of grain and one bisciut of clover or lucerne in a 24 hour period. No other access to roughage except a handful of chaff ! Farkwitts
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2675989 is a reply to message #2675971 ] |
Wed, 13 June 2012 21:54 |
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bunny b
Messages: 1649
Registered: February 2011 |
Completely Insane |
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| FULLTHROTTLEDASH wrote on Wed, 13 June 2012 21:32 |
| Thelwell wrote on Wed, 13 June 2012 16:15 |
There's little nutrient value in any grass at this time of the year & 4 hard feeds per week isn't enough to maintain body condition on a TB, let alone a poor one, in work.
I'd guess there's a fair chance he's wormy & plenty of liklihood that he's harbouring encysted red worms so I'd use a tube of Equest paste now then 2 wks later & ideally, 2 wks after that to clear them right out.
I'd also be feeding a minimum 6kgs of hard feed whether it be oats (cheapest, easily digested, high energy) Nutri rice, rice bran, Trugain, any other proprietory brand or a combo. My 3yo TB who lost weight due to chronic infection has gained rapidly on 3kg oats; 3/High E; 2 Trugain with oaten chaff a biscuit of lucerne & next to no grass, whilst working lightly as a racehorse
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Poor bloody horse 6kg of hard feed and one biscuit of lucerne. Ideal ration for digestive problems including colic and ulcers, as well mental issues.Reminds me of the trainers i visited in ALbury last weekend they all fed around the six to eight kilo mark of grain and one bisciut of clover or lucerne in a 24 hour period. No other access to roughage except a handful of chaff ! Farkwitts
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I wish more people understood this. Horses evolved to eat large volumes of low quality roughage. They do not have gall bladders. They secrete bile constantly because they are designed to be continually processing feed. Plus large volumes of hay is the most effective way to clear sand from the gut. My Vet refers to most colics as 'standard hay deficiencies'. All horse diets should start with ad lib roughage and the rest as extra.
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| Re: Fattening horses without making them hot? [message #2676237 is a reply to message #2675989 ] |
Thu, 14 June 2012 09:35 |
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| bunny b wrote on Wed, 13 June 2012 21:54 |
I wish more people understood this. Horses evolved to eat large volumes of low quality roughage. They do not have gall bladders. They secrete bile constantly because they are designed to be continually processing feed. Plus large volumes of hay is the most effective way to clear sand from the gut. My Vet refers to most colics as 'standard hay deficiencies'. All horse diets should start with ad lib roughage and the rest as extra.
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couldn't agree more bunny b. it always saddens me to hear of horses dying from colic, especially high level performance horses. with all the resources at the owners/trainers disposal, it really should never be feed related.
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