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Ulcers [message #2601683] Wed, 21 March 2012 19:09 Go to next message
  Porge  
Messages: 1388
Registered: April 2008
Location: Warranooke RC
Completely Insane
I am looking for some happy ever after stories Embarassed about treatments and preventatives/maintenance products that work for ulcers...

My boy is currently on a round of Gastrozol and I have been looking at ways to prevent/maintain them once the ulcers themselves are healed.

There are so many products on the market I was looking for people who have used them, and what works and what hasn’t Very Happy

Has anyone tried TuffRock Gastro Intestinal Liquid???

Disclaimer: I am in close contact with my Vet and obviously will be guided by her however would love to hear others stories, the good the bad and the ugly Very Happy

[Updated on: Wed, 21 March 2012 19:26]

Re: Ulcers [message #2601685 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Evered  is currently offline Evered  
Messages: 283
Registered: February 2008
Level 2
I tried so called 'preventatives' such as whey powder, slippery elm, etc and they did nothing.

What I ended up doing was buying another box of ulcer meds from my vet and keeping it on hand for when it looks like my horse needs it and he gets a 5 or 10ml maintenance dose when required - it works best.
Re: Ulcers [message #2601690 is a reply to message #2601685 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Porge  
Messages: 1388
Registered: April 2008
Location: Warranooke RC
Completely Insane
Evered wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 19:13

I tried so called 'preventatives' such as whey powder, slippery elm, etc and they did nothing.

What I ended up doing was buying another box of ulcer meds from my vet and keeping it on hand for when it looks like my horse needs it and he gets a 5 or 10ml maintenance dose when required - it works best.


do you mean a once off 10ml or a week of a daily dose??

Re: Ulcers [message #2601712 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  English Rose  is currently offline English Rose  
Messages: 8330
Registered: January 2009
Its my party and I'll hoo haa if I want to
For ER Junior's horse we give him Neighlox with a scoop of lucerne chaff before riding.

He also has Neighlox in both his feeds. We feed him high fibre, low starch feed with oaten and lucerne hay.

I have also looked into Alkapellets, but haven't made my mind up about them.
Re: Ulcers [message #2601717 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21651
Registered: September 2008
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Tuffrock GI is great

Small feed of lucerne prior to a hard feed

Bicarb, Slippery Elm Bark, Whey Isolates, Gastrocoat, etc etc etc.....

Keep the horse eating as much as possible

Eliminate levels of stress...

Basically you want the stomach acid to not attack the lining of the stomach
Re: Ulcers [message #2601750 is a reply to message #2601717 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 20:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  obsessed  
Messages: 7242
Registered: October 2005
Location: SEDC
This computer will self destruct in 10 posts
I had a VERY off horse with Ulcers Sad

As soon as we started the Gastrozol course he started to pick up.


Gastrozol now comes in a double strength. So he gets less daily and much cheaper...


He also has a different feed regume. With total non cereal grains, lucerne chaff, speedibeet.

BUT. I refuse to take him off the medication... Sad

Why would I stuff around with an alternative when what the vet has recommended has worked and continually working.. Smile


Ratbag.
Re: Ulcers [message #2601755 is a reply to message #2601750 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Finn  
Messages: 16911
Registered: January 2007
Location: BDFEG
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Used to give Gastrozole daily to the racehorses. Didn't hurt them and works well for the ulcers.
Re: Ulcers [message #2601761 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 20:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  HeidiGA  
Messages: 2563
Registered: April 2007
Location: Mulwala
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
Vitam Plus with Protexin - worked for my TB

VITAM® PLUS HEALTH & VITALITY™

THE ESSENTIAL NUTRIENTS OF VITAM® WITH PROTEXIN® MULTI-STRAIN PROBIOTIC

This unique product combines a vitamin mineral supplement with a probiotic to address the needs of the whole horse - formulated to support the performance of young growing horses, those stressed by training and competition and stud breeding mares and stallions.

A low dose rate and high nutrient value together with Protexin's 9 strains of safe, live, natural bacteria, benefits general well being and improves intestinal microbial balance - for better digestion of feed, reduced upsets, maintenance of appetite and suppression of E. coli, Salmonella and Aeromonas spp bacteria. Whether digestive upsets are the cause or result of stress, Protexin restores the gut to good health allowing horses to perform at their best.


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Re: Ulcers [message #2601766 is a reply to message #2601761 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Porge  
Messages: 1388
Registered: April 2008
Location: Warranooke RC
Completely Insane
Thanks everyone Smile

Obsessed - what dose do you give daily as a preventative?

Grouch - he is currently on oats, lucern and copra... so when you say a small meal of lucern before hard feed would I be better to give him his lucern seperate before??

I'm looking into Ulceraid too...I have heard some good things about it

http://www.ulceraid.com.au/index.php
Re: Ulcers [message #2601778 is a reply to message #2601766 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  obsessed  
Messages: 7242
Registered: October 2005
Location: SEDC
This computer will self destruct in 10 posts
Porge wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 20:41

Thanks everyone Smile

Obsessed - what dose do you give daily as a preventative?

Grouch - he is currently on oats, lucern and copra... so when you say a small meal of lucern before hard feed would I be better to give him his lucern seperate before??

I'm looking into Ulceraid too...I have heard some good things about it

http://www.ulceraid.com.au/index.php




I have a slight problem with the oats. It is a cereal grain.

I use Hygain showtorque. It is based on Non cereal grains.

I now maintain him on Gastropell Forte.. About 2ml per day...


Ratbag.
Re: Ulcers [message #2601783 is a reply to message #2601766 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  chelleyau  is currently offline chelleyau  
Messages: 478
Registered: January 2012
Level 1
my vet has just told us to get gastrazole for my mare its taking a lil to get to this point and have tried a few different things first with no luck including Tuffrock GI and the herbal stuff with little or no difference

I am praying that the Gastrazole will be the knight in shining armour we are really needing a win
Re: Ulcers [message #2601827 is a reply to message #2601778 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Porge  
Messages: 1388
Registered: April 2008
Location: Warranooke RC
Completely Insane
obsessed wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 21:03

Porge wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 20:41

Thanks everyone Smile

Obsessed - what dose do you give daily as a preventative?

Grouch - he is currently on oats, lucern and copra... so when you say a small meal of lucern before hard feed would I be better to give him his lucern seperate before??

I'm looking into Ulceraid too...I have heard some good things about it

http://www.ulceraid.com.au/index.php




I have a slight problem with the oats. It is a cereal grain.

I use Hygain showtorque. It is based on Non cereal grains.

I now maintain him on Gastropell Forte.. About 2ml per day...


Crying or Very Sad Crying or Very Sad Crying or Very Sad The thought of trying to find feed that maintains weight, not hot blahdiblah again makes me want to cry Crying or Very Sad

Right when I found a combination I was happy with...

I have tried Showtorque in the past and wasn't thrilled...but then again if he has had ulcers the whole time then I may need to start again Rolls Eyes
Re: Ulcers [message #2601829 is a reply to message #2601783 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 21:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Porge  
Messages: 1388
Registered: April 2008
Location: Warranooke RC
Completely Insane
chelleyau wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 21:06

my vet has just told us to get gastrazole for my mare its taking a lil to get to this point and have tried a few different things first with no luck including Tuffrock GI and the herbal stuff with little or no difference

I am praying that the Gastrazole will be the knight in shining armour we are really needing a win


Correct me if i am wrong but I think Tuffrock etc are for once the ulcers are healed??

I hope you have more luck with the Gastrazole Sad
Re: Ulcers [message #2601875 is a reply to message #2601827 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  English Rose  is currently offline English Rose  
Messages: 8330
Registered: January 2009
Its my party and I'll hoo haa if I want to
Porge wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 21:44

obsessed wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 21:03

Porge wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 20:41

Thanks everyone Smile

Obsessed - what dose do you give daily as a preventative?

Grouch - he is currently on oats, lucern and copra... so when you say a small meal of lucern before hard feed would I be better to give him his lucern seperate before??

I'm looking into Ulceraid too...I have heard some good things about it

http://www.ulceraid.com.au/index.php




I have a slight problem with the oats. It is a cereal grain.

I use Hygain showtorque. It is based on Non cereal grains.

I now maintain him on Gastropell Forte.. About 2ml per day...


Crying or Very Sad Crying or Very Sad Crying or Very Sad The thought of trying to find feed that maintains weight, not hot blahdiblah again makes me want to cry Crying or Very Sad

Right when I found a combination I was happy with...

I have tried Showtorque in the past and wasn't thrilled...but then again if he has had ulcers the whole time then I may need to start again Rolls Eyes



I moved mine off the showtorque too, even though he gained weight beautifully on it. I was worried about the high molassess in it. I now have him on Coprice Cool Conditioner, which is rice based. He's actually probably a little too fat on it atm!
Re: Ulcers [message #2601897 is a reply to message #2601712 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  KikoiraPark  
Messages: 3384
Registered: May 2008
Location: Gerogery ARC
Unstoppable, ungaggable, unzippable
English Rose wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 19:48



I have also looked into Alkapellets, but haven't made my mind up about them.



ER I started feeding AlkaPellets as I had a couple of bad doers and a very light on pony come into my care, while none had been scoped for ulcers I would have put money on at least two of those three (I had 6 on it) having them.
It made a huge difference all round! Everyone stacked on weight, their appetites increased, they seemed to be getting more from less!
Am extremely happy and must go buy some more when I get paid as I have run out and I can tell!
Re: Ulcers [message #2601900 is a reply to message #2601690 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Evered  is currently offline Evered  
Messages: 283
Registered: February 2008
Level 2
Porge wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 16:20

Evered wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 19:13

I tried so called 'preventatives' such as whey powder, slippery elm, etc and they did nothing.

What I ended up doing was buying another box of ulcer meds from my vet and keeping it on hand for when it looks like my horse needs it and he gets a 5 or 10ml maintenance dose when required - it works best.


do you mean a once off 10ml or a week of a daily dose??




A once off dose. A box of syringes lasts me quite a long time.
Re: Ulcers [message #2601902 is a reply to message #2601897 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  English Rose  is currently offline English Rose  
Messages: 8330
Registered: January 2009
Its my party and I'll hoo haa if I want to
KikoiraPark wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 22:48

English Rose wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 19:48



I have also looked into Alkapellets, but haven't made my mind up about them.



ER I started feeding AlkaPellets as I had a couple of bad doers and a very light on pony come into my care, while none had been scoped for ulcers I would have put money on at least two of those three (I had 6 on it) having them.
It made a huge difference all round! Everyone stacked on weight, their appetites increased, they seemed to be getting more from less!
Am extremely happy and must go buy some more when I get paid as I have run out and I can tell!


My ulcer boy is rather fat atm Embarassed

Not sure if its worth putting him on alkapellets or not. He's already on speedibeet, so has a high fibre feed.
Re: Ulcers [message #2601917 is a reply to message #2601902 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 23:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  KikoiraPark  
Messages: 3384
Registered: May 2008
Location: Gerogery ARC
Unstoppable, ungaggable, unzippable
English Rose wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 22:52

KikoiraPark wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 22:48

English Rose wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 19:48



I have also looked into Alkapellets, but haven't made my mind up about them.



ER I started feeding AlkaPellets as I had a couple of bad doers and a very light on pony come into my care, while none had been scoped for ulcers I would have put money on at least two of those three (I had 6 on it) having them.
It made a huge difference all round! Everyone stacked on weight, their appetites increased, they seemed to be getting more from less!
Am extremely happy and must go buy some more when I get paid as I have run out and I can tell!


My ulcer boy is rather fat atm Embarassed

Not sure if its worth putting him on alkapellets or not. He's already on speedibeet, so has a high fibre feed.



It didn't pork my fatty out anymore but did give her a "glow" of health, however the ones who weren't "doing" came ahead in leaps and bounds.
Ah yes possibly doesn't really then especially if he is doing so well. My fatty only got it as it's a group paddock and she is 2nd on the pecking order, so for everyone else to be able to eat she had to have some Rolls Eyes

As I said very impressed and will certainly be getting more Very Happy
Re: Ulcers [message #2601924 is a reply to message #2601917 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 23:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  PanAllegra  
Messages: 4616
Registered: July 2008
Step away from the computer,

Colic from long term ulcer damage is the reason I lost my wonderful oldie. I spent a lot of time and a phenomenonal amount of money trying to fix it. After we had some semblance of control with the gastrozol, the two things I credit with making an extraordinary difference (in that he was fat, healthy and glowing with health in the last months of his life) are AlkaPellets and Tuffrock GI.


Peppercorn Abbott (Pepper)(1987-2012) Le Roi est mort, vive le Roi!
Peppercorn Valley Penny Lane (Penny)
Fenwick Alexander (Alex)
Peppercorn Valley Albert (Albie) (Vale)
Peppercorn Valley Minka (Minky)
Manetheren Aslan (Legs)
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Re: Ulcers [message #2601927 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Wed, 21 March 2012 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  FCEH  
Messages: 2341
Registered: June 2007
Stark, Raving Bonkers
Hi Porge, our regime has been fairly succesful in as much as the mare in question is performing brilliantly, is very happy and relaxed, holding condition well and getting fabulous metabolic parameters at vet checks right throught out tough 160km endurance races. She had a stellar year in endurance including a 1st place and Best Conditioned Horse at one 160km race, and a 2nd place and Best Conditioned horse at the State Championships 160km.

Out treatment product is also Gastrozol daily (although I have just purchased a box of the Equipell-essentially the same product, just double the doseage of omeprozole which works out about 30% cheaper for us)
Initial treatment (a bit over 12 months ago) was 10 ml per day for 8 days, reduced gradually until 14 days was up.

Maintenence product of choice has been KER's Neighlox at a little under the recommended dose (mare is only about 350kgs) Its active ingedient is aluminium sulfate -the same as what you find in Mylanta and many other human antacids. From memory the Neighlox pellet also has a bit of whey powder in it as a binder.

Additional maintenance has been 20 ml of Tuff Rock liquid conditioner per day over the tongue. She LOVES the stuff and nearly bites the syringe in half to get to it!
I recently spoke to Steve at Tuff Rock about the GI and it's essentially the same as the liquid conditioner - just more concentrated.

Other small changes in management include:
A small damp chaff meal right before work (creates the ph buffering saliva AND puts a bit of a gelatinous raft on the top of the stomach juices)

Offering green grazing as often as possible when out on long training sessions (we train at 20 -40kms at a time so usually out for a few hours)

A small damp chaff meal beofre going on the float for trips of under 2 hours and if on board for longer a small bag of soaked hay is offered in the float.

Our mare's ulcers were managed well without gastrozol until the death of my gelding about 18 months ago. It upset the herd dynamic terribley (he was the alpha horse and this mare was his constant companion for 7 years) and the stress triggered more acute ulceration.

At the start of this endurance season we started another course of Gastrozol at 10ml per day for 5 days then wound it back gradually until 10 days was up.

Twice in the season last year we gave her a short 'top up' course of gastrozol in the period a couple of weeks before 160km races (April and July)
We intend to do a top up course the same this season.

I do hear good feedback about Khonke's Gastrocoat as a management supplement (it's a mucillage agent and makes them salivate a lot) and also good feedback on Slippery Elm and plenty of people just throw a spoonful of bi carb soda in the daily feeds too!

Sorry for the essay but ulcers have been facinating me for a couple of years and I hope everyone can get the same amazingly good outcome that we have been able to give our mare.

Re: Ulcers [message #2602041 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Thu, 22 March 2012 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  MissDiddles  
Messages: 114
Registered: August 2011
Location: Nhill
Level 3
After my QH had a full course of Gastrozole i elminated all high sugar/starch foods from his diet (including grass) and have given him 24 hour access to hay
I added to his hard feed for his ulcers
Alka Pellets
slippery elm
Brewers yeast
chia seeds

He has put on and maintained his weight beautifully and i have even had to cut back on his feed! I tried gastrocoat and found it did nothing
I swear by alka pellets and slippery elm, at the start i doubled the doses then cut back slowly and watched the amazing difference in my horse!
Re: Ulcers [message #2602083 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Thu, 22 March 2012 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  susieq  
Messages: 3244
Registered: October 2010
Location: HRTAV
Unstoppable, ungaggable, unzippable
My TB who is also a chronic windsucker also gets Ulcers. I have also tried so many different products to maintain the problem but now I have found regardless if the symptoms are there or not to give him a course of Gastrozole every 6 months. He is also on lucerne hay 3 times a day which I think has helped alot with the ulcers. With the hard feed he gets twice a day and his lucerne he is in bloody good condition. I guess like the rest of us it is trial and error as you go along.


I can pick em but I can't ride em
Re: Ulcers [message #2602090 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Thu, 22 March 2012 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  natashaisace  is currently offline natashaisace  
Messages: 305
Registered: September 2009
Location: SEDC
Level 1
Hi Porge

I used a Gastropell paste from the vet for 16 days to treat the ulcers, then maintained them by giving Bicarb, Whey Isolates, Brewers yeast and physillium (similiar ingredients as Gastrocoat but cheaper and seems to work better?!) and LOTS of grazing/hay to keep him eating as much as possible so he always has something in his stomach..and a small chaff feed prior to work to buffer the stomach.
Eliminating high sugar/starch foods also helped.

I have also seen great results with Slippery Elm.

Re: Ulcers [message #2602202 is a reply to message #2601897 ] Thu, 22 March 2012 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  ellabw6  is currently offline ellabw6  
Messages: 2399
Registered: January 2012
Stark, Raving Bonkers
KikoiraPark wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 22:48

English Rose wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 19:48



I have also looked into Alkapellets, but haven't made my mind up about them.



ER I started feeding AlkaPellets as I had a couple of bad doers and a very light on pony come into my care, while none had been scoped for ulcers I would have put money on at least two of those three (I had 6 on it) having them.
It made a huge difference all round! Everyone stacked on weight, their appetites increased, they seemed to be getting more from less!
Am extremely happy and must go buy some more when I get paid as I have run out and I can tell!


How much are alkapellets, where do you get them from and what quantity do you have to feed them in?

It was suggested my boy has them and I was told to go with brewers yeast, whey powder and kelp pellets but its alot of different things so if that worked I would love to give it a try


The horse through all its trials has preserved the sweetness of paradise in its blood.
Re: Ulcers [message #2602211 is a reply to message #2602202 ] Thu, 22 March 2012 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  PanAllegra  
Messages: 4616
Registered: July 2008
Step away from the computer,
ellabw6 wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 12:16

KikoiraPark wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 22:48

English Rose wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 19:48



I have also looked into Alkapellets, but haven't made my mind up about them.



ER I started feeding AlkaPellets as I had a couple of bad doers and a very light on pony come into my care, while none had been scoped for ulcers I would have put money on at least two of those three (I had 6 on it) having them.
It made a huge difference all round! Everyone stacked on weight, their appetites increased, they seemed to be getting more from less!
Am extremely happy and must go buy some more when I get paid as I have run out and I can tell!


How much are alkapellets, where do you get them from and what quantity do you have to feed them in?

It was suggested my boy has them and I was told to go with brewers yeast, whey powder and kelp pellets but its alot of different things so if that worked I would love to give it a try


Around $40 a 25kg bag. You feed between 100 and 200gms per 100kgs of body weight. They come with their own scoop - it's not a high feeding rate and is therefore quite economical.

http://www.martinag.com.au/martinag/Feeding_Guide.html

I've been feeding what was left of a full bag of my oldie's to my mare and I've noticed a difference in her - blooming coat and her big ex-broodie belly has started to go down.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 March 2012 12:28]


Peppercorn Abbott (Pepper)(1987-2012) Le Roi est mort, vive le Roi!
Peppercorn Valley Penny Lane (Penny)
Fenwick Alexander (Alex)
Peppercorn Valley Albert (Albie) (Vale)
Peppercorn Valley Minka (Minky)
Manetheren Aslan (Legs)
Bromhund Flint (Flynn)
Re: Ulcers [message #2602217 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Thu, 22 March 2012 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Lenny  
Messages: 1720
Registered: January 2006
Location: Riddells Creek
Completely Insane
Ahhh Porge - I feel your pain! My horse is on the exact same diet - Copra, Oats, Lucerne chaff but also gets MagE and Brewers Yeast. He was treated 6 months with Gastrozol which made a huge difference. He had been great up until last week were he stressed himself out so badly at a comp that he is showing all the symptons again. He even lost weight since the episode on Sunday! I started him again first thing Monday morning and can see an improvement each day but still a bit stressy.

I am going to look into the Neighlox and Alka pellets as well to see if they make a difference ongoing otherwise it looks like a very expensive time with a maintenance dose of Gastrozol.
Re: Ulcers [message #2602226 is a reply to message #2602217 ] Thu, 22 March 2012 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  PanAllegra  
Messages: 4616
Registered: July 2008
Step away from the computer,
Lenny wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 12:35

Ahhh Porge - I feel your pain! My horse is on the exact same diet - Copra, Oats, Lucerne chaff but also gets MagE and Brewers Yeast. He was treated 6 months with Gastrozol which made a huge difference. He had been great up until last week were he stressed himself out so badly at a comp that he is showing all the symptons again. He even lost weight since the episode on Sunday! I started him again first thing Monday morning and can see an improvement each day but still a bit stressy.

I am going to look into the Neighlox and Alka pellets as well to see if they make a difference ongoing otherwise it looks like a very expensive time with a maintenance dose of Gastrozol.


Just be careful feeding the Neighlox over an extended period - it's a great product but long term aluminium use is not good for them. If you are feeding at the recommended dosage rates for a 500kg horse and also feeding again before riding a few times a week, you can come quite close to toxic levels of aluminium.


Peppercorn Abbott (Pepper)(1987-2012) Le Roi est mort, vive le Roi!
Peppercorn Valley Penny Lane (Penny)
Fenwick Alexander (Alex)
Peppercorn Valley Albert (Albie) (Vale)
Peppercorn Valley Minka (Minky)
Manetheren Aslan (Legs)
Bromhund Flint (Flynn)
Re: Ulcers [message #2602239 is a reply to message #2602226 ] Thu, 22 March 2012 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Lenny  
Messages: 1720
Registered: January 2006
Location: Riddells Creek
Completely Insane
PanAllegra wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 12:44

Lenny wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 12:35

Ahhh Porge - I feel your pain! My horse is on the exact same diet - Copra, Oats, Lucerne chaff but also gets MagE and Brewers Yeast. He was treated 6 months with Gastrozol which made a huge difference. He had been great up until last week were he stressed himself out so badly at a comp that he is showing all the symptons again. He even lost weight since the episode on Sunday! I started him again first thing Monday morning and can see an improvement each day but still a bit stressy.

I am going to look into the Neighlox and Alka pellets as well to see if they make a difference ongoing otherwise it looks like a very expensive time with a maintenance dose of Gastrozol.


Just be careful feeding the Neighlox over an extended period - it's a great product but long term aluminium use is not good for them. If you are feeding at the recommended dosage rates for a 500kg horse and also feeding again before riding a few times a week, you can come quite close to toxic levels of aluminium.


Thanks for heads up very important to know Smile Will certainly do some more research on it before making a decision Smile
Re: Ulcers [message #2602253 is a reply to message #2602217 ] Thu, 22 March 2012 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Dusty_Girl  
Messages: 3533
Registered: March 2009
Unstoppable, ungaggable, unzippable
The old TB that I took on last year was allowed to windsuck chronically uncontrolled for quite some time.. He was treated not long after he arrived with Gastrozole and was doing well, picked up a lot, it was gradual weight gain but it was happening and he was finally putting topline on.. I moved his paddock a couple of weeks back (into a rested one with more green grass) and he's gone downhill, he's lost weight again, has started getting NASTY at dinner time, he struck out and connected with my DH lastnight, then turned around to let fly with back legs when he got growled at.. So, Im thinking Ulcers are back.. Confused This is the most laid back dude of a horse on the planet when he's feeling well..

He has a lot of damage due to the uncontrolled windsucking and the ulcers were obviously there undetected previously for quite sometime, they thought he was grumpy and girthy in his old age, but I'd say it's been ulcers all along causing the grumpiness..

The vet is going to come out tomorrow and we'll re-assess our plan of attack, treat him again etc.. It's certainly frustrating..

He's been getting Maxi-Soy, lucerne chaff, Equi-Jewel (before that was Copra), tuffrock and his supplement.. I have been thinking about adding Gasro-Coat or similar but he was doing so well I hadn't.. I'm thinking though we may be going down the same road, a maintenance dose of Gastrozole..

Will advise what the vet recommends tomorrow..

[Updated on: Thu, 22 March 2012 13:15]

Re: Ulcers [message #2602473 is a reply to message #2602253 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 06:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  BindiS  is currently offline BindiS  
Messages: 1013
Registered: February 2007
Level 1 - Advanced
Where can I get alkapellets from?
I'm located in the Yarra valley.
I don't mind traveling.
And would it be appropriate for right dorsal colitis?
My big TB is so unwell at the moment that I will try anything. I'm so afraid of losing him Sad Crying or Very Sad

I won't go into the back story, but just so you all know, I am working very closely with my amazing vet and I want to run the alkapellets idea past him to see if he thinks it may help.
Re: Ulcers [message #2602477 is a reply to message #2602473 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 07:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Porge  
Messages: 1388
Registered: April 2008
Location: Warranooke RC
Completely Insane
Thankyou so much everyone....

I think I will look into Alka pellets...I live in Ballan so will have to have a look around.

Your own stories are invaluable thank you for sharing.... I am waiting for a phone call from the Vet this morning hopefully she will have some more answers or at least confirm it is only ulcers and nothing else.

At the moment I am throwing everything at him and he is eating..if only small amounts. Grass hay, Lucerne hay and his usual hard feed. Some days he gets through most of the hard feed other days hardly touches it. Crying or Very Sad

I am also keeping him on ToughRock GI although he isn’t particularly impressed with it…I might try the conditioner...


Re: Ulcers [message #2602483 is a reply to message #2602211 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 07:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Shorty08  is currently offline Shorty08  
Messages: 1809
Registered: August 2008
Stark, Raving Bonkers
PanAllegra wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 12:28

ellabw6 wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 12:16

KikoiraPark wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 22:48

English Rose wrote on Wed, 21 March 2012 19:48



I have also looked into Alkapellets, but haven't made my mind up about them.



ER I started feeding AlkaPellets as I had a couple of bad doers and a very light on pony come into my care, while none had been scoped for ulcers I would have put money on at least two of those three (I had 6 on it) having them.
It made a huge difference all round! Everyone stacked on weight, their appetites increased, they seemed to be getting more from less!
Am extremely happy and must go buy some more when I get paid as I have run out and I can tell!


How much are alkapellets, where do you get them from and what quantity do you have to feed them in?

It was suggested my boy has them and I was told to go with brewers yeast, whey powder and kelp pellets but its alot of different things so if that worked I would love to give it a try


Around $40 a 25kg bag. You feed between 100 and 200gms per 100kgs of body weight. They come with their own scoop - it's not a high feeding rate and is therefore quite economical.

http://www.martinag.com.au/martinag/Feeding_Guide.html

I've been feeding what was left of a full bag of my oldie's to my mare and I've noticed a difference in her - blooming coat and her big ex-broodie belly has started to go down.



A friend of mine had my mare for a few weeks and had the same results after feeding AlkaPellets. I couldn't believe the difference when I picked her up. She looked fantastic!
Re: Ulcers [message #2602490 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  KikoiraPark  
Messages: 3384
Registered: May 2008
Location: Gerogery ARC
Unstoppable, ungaggable, unzippable
Here is the website for Alka Pellets http://www.martinag.com.au you will find a list if distributors there. They also have a FB page.

I get mine from my local JC Milton supplier as they don't actually have a supplier this way.
Re: Ulcers [message #2602580 is a reply to message #2602477 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  PanAllegra  
Messages: 4616
Registered: July 2008
Step away from the computer,
Porge wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 07:09

Thankyou so much everyone....

I think I will look into Alka pellets...I live in Ballan so will have to have a look around.
Your own stories are invaluable thank you for sharing.... I am waiting for a phone call from the Vet this morning hopefully she will have some more answers or at least confirm it is only ulcers and nothing else.

At the moment I am throwing everything at him and he is eating..if only small amounts. Grass hay, Lucerne hay and his usual hard feed. Some days he gets through most of the hard feed other days hardly touches it. Crying or Very Sad

I am also keeping him on ToughRock GI although he isn’t particularly impressed with it…I might try the conditioner...





Porge - MegaMerch in Ballarat now keep them in stock.

If you're having trouble getting him to eat while trying to resolve the ulcers - fenugreek seeds can help. The smell tempts them to eat and then it acts as an appetite stimulant to keep them eating it. I used to feed about a 1/4 of a cup to my oldie at each feed and it really helped keep him eating. And it's cheap! (About $12 a kilogram).


Peppercorn Abbott (Pepper)(1987-2012) Le Roi est mort, vive le Roi!
Peppercorn Valley Penny Lane (Penny)
Fenwick Alexander (Alex)
Peppercorn Valley Albert (Albie) (Vale)
Peppercorn Valley Minka (Minky)
Manetheren Aslan (Legs)
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Re: Ulcers [message #2602613 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  English Rose  is currently offline English Rose  
Messages: 8330
Registered: January 2009
Its my party and I'll hoo haa if I want to
JC MIlton stocks Alka pellets, so most feed stores that deal with them can get them in for you.

For anyone in the Bendigo area, Sandhurst Stockfeeds is getting some in for me to try.
Re: Ulcers [message #2602682 is a reply to message #2602580 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  FCEH  
Messages: 2341
Registered: June 2007
Stark, Raving Bonkers
PanAllegra wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 09:32

Porge wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 07:09

Thankyou so much everyone....

I think I will look into Alka pellets...I live in Ballan so will have to have a look around.
Your own stories are invaluable thank you for sharing.... I am waiting for a phone call from the Vet this morning hopefully she will have some more answers or at least confirm it is only ulcers and nothing else.

At the moment I am throwing everything at him and he is eating..if only small amounts. Grass hay, Lucerne hay and his usual hard feed. Some days he gets through most of the hard feed other days hardly touches it. Crying or Very Sad

I am also keeping him on ToughRock GI although he isn’t particularly impressed with it…I might try the conditioner...





Porge - MegaMerch in Ballarat now keep them in stock.

If you're having trouble getting him to eat while trying to resolve the ulcers - fenugreek seeds can help. The smell tempts them to eat and then it acts as an appetite stimulant to keep them eating it. I used to feed about a 1/4 of a cup to my oldie at each feed and it really helped keep him eating. And it's cheap! (About $12 a kilogram).




I read some study a while back about tastes that horses like. Fenugreek came out on top of the list! The other one that was suprising was cherry flavour! I think apples were 3rd on the list.
Re: Ulcers [message #2602810 is a reply to message #2601683 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  stefani95  is currently offline stefani95
Messages: 434
Registered: April 2011
Level 1
Didnt read any of the other posts but wouldnt you find the cause of the ulcers and try and eliminate the reason? For instance mine got hers because she was neglected and pratically starved before I got her but now she has constant access to food and water so once cleared up she will most likely not get one again. But the gastrozol does say in the brochure that for prevention of ulcers you give 5ml daily. Smile


" Ohh yes horses, those things with faulty steering and unreliable brakes"
" He who believes he knows everything, clearly does not."

I ♥ my little Smellie Ellie Very Happy
Re: Ulcers [message #2602816 is a reply to message #2602810 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Dusty_Girl  
Messages: 3533
Registered: March 2009
Unstoppable, ungaggable, unzippable
stefani95 wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 12:52

Didnt read any of the other posts but wouldnt you find the cause of the ulcers and try and eliminate the reason? For instance mine got hers because she was neglected and pratically starved before I got her but now she has constant access to food and water so once cleared up she will most likely not get one again. But the gastrozol does say in the brochure that for prevention of ulcers you give 5ml daily. Smile


It's not always that simple, sometimes the damage is done already and some horses will just get them recurring despite good management and treatment..

My boy has a very severe case and a maintenance dose looks like it is going to be the only treatment, even though the cause of his ulcers should now be eliminated they keep re-occuring and have done damage through not being treated for so long previously and because he was allowed to windsuck uncontrolled for quite some time..
Re: Ulcers [message #2602826 is a reply to message #2602816 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  English Rose  is currently offline English Rose  
Messages: 8330
Registered: January 2009
Its my party and I'll hoo haa if I want to
Dusty_Girl wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 12:58

stefani95 wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 12:52

Didnt read any of the other posts but wouldnt you find the cause of the ulcers and try and eliminate the reason? For instance mine got hers because she was neglected and pratically starved before I got her but now she has constant access to food and water so once cleared up she will most likely not get one again. But the gastrozol does say in the brochure that for prevention of ulcers you give 5ml daily. Smile


It's not always that simple, sometimes the damage is done already and some horses will just get them recurring despite good management and treatment..

My boy has a very severe case and a maintenance dose looks like it is going to be the only treatment, even though the cause of his ulcers should now be eliminated they keep re-occuring and have done damage through not being treated for so long previously and because he was allowed to windsuck uncontrolled for quite some time..



I am certainly trying to minimise the risk of reoccurance, but quite simply if you put your horse in a stressful situation, floating, riding, competitions, you run the risk of them reoccurring. I'm not prepared to just leave the horse in the paddock doing nothing because it might flare up his ulcers. Instead I try to reduce the risk by good management, but I can't rule out them returning.

And I'm not sure windsucking caused the ulcers, but the ulcers cause the windsucking.
Re: Ulcers [message #2602832 is a reply to message #2602826 ] Fri, 23 March 2012 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
  Dusty_Girl  
Messages: 3533
Registered: March 2009
Unstoppable, ungaggable, unzippable
English Rose wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 13:11

Dusty_Girl wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 12:58

stefani95 wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 12:52

Didnt read any of the other posts but wouldnt you find the cause of the ulcers and try and eliminate the reason? For instance mine got hers because she was neglected and pratically starved before I got her but now she has constant access to food and water so once cleared up she will most likely not get one again. But the gastrozol does say in the brochure that for prevention of ulcers you give 5ml daily. Smile


It's not always that simple, sometimes the damage is done already and some horses will just get them recurring despite good management and treatment..

My boy has a very severe case and a maintenance dose looks like it is going to be the only treatment, even though the cause of his ulcers should now be eliminated they keep re-occuring and have done damage through not being treated for so long previously and because he was allowed to windsuck uncontrolled for quite some time..



I am certainly trying to minimise the risk of reoccurance, but quite simply if you put your horse in a stressful situation, floating, riding, competitions, you run the risk of them reoccurring. I'm not prepared to just leave the horse in the paddock doing nothing because it might flare up his ulcers. Instead I try to reduce the risk by good management, but I can't rule out them returning.

And I'm not sure windsucking caused the ulcers, but the ulcers cause the windsucking.


Probably, but the windsucking also does damage IMO..
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