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icon9.gif  The BSL have struck [message #2677647] Fri, 15 June 2012 20:35 Go to next message
  merlot  is currently offline merlot  
Messages: 1677
Registered: December 2008
Location: Kangaroo Ground
Completely Insane
I was so wrong Sad I believed, very stupidly that the government would handle the situation with Pit Bulls correctly. Two dogs that were proven not to be Pit Bulls were put down. My heart breaks for the owners of the dogs. They went to court and fought for their dogs and lost anyway. This is so wrong.
http://www.savingpets.com.au/2012/06/a-murder-in-moira/

[Updated on: Fri, 15 June 2012 20:55]

Re: The BSL have struck [message #2677650 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Fri, 15 June 2012 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Emma  
Messages: 9234
Registered: October 2005
Location: Yarrawonga
Its my party and I'll hoo haa if I want to

How sad. Sad

[Updated on: Fri, 15 June 2012 21:04]


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Re: The BSL have struck [message #2677667 is a reply to message #2677650 ] Fri, 15 June 2012 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  mlpc2  
Messages: 7000
Registered: January 2011
Location: the club of me :)
This computer will self destruct in 10 posts
So sad Sad
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2677674 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Fri, 15 June 2012 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  MissMaddy  
Messages: 2776
Registered: August 2006
Location: hopefully one later this ...
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
I saw that article yesterday. It was only a matter of time with our ridiculous new laws. So very sad for these owners who were only trying to do the right thing. Crying or Very Sad
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2677716 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Fri, 15 June 2012 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  djrayment  
Messages: 3910
Registered: May 2009
Step away from the computer,
Twisted Evil Sad
MM is right - it was only a matter of time. The ONLY thing those two bastards took note of when pushing this through was last years QLD finding that allowed the owner to take his dog home because the council couldn't prove it was an APBT... cue the Vic edition of BSL - the only law that is administered solely by people in a job with NO requirement for training and for which there is no avenue of appeal.

This won't be the last time this happens and I'd bet money that Ted won't be revoking it anytime soon, regardless of what evidence gets shoved in his face Evil or Very Mad
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2677851 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Sat, 16 June 2012 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Wings  is currently offline Wings  
Messages: 5249
Registered: November 2008
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How horrid Evil or Very Mad

Those laws were stupied when they brought in as a knew jerk reaction and they are worse now.


"There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it."
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2677862 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Sat, 16 June 2012 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  clydesdalelover  is currently offline clydesdalelover  
Messages: 1245
Registered: March 2012
Completely Insane
That bloke needs glasses, these dogs look nothing like a pit bull, my friend has a mastiff and they look like his dog, I feel very sorry for the owner.
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2677884 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Sat, 16 June 2012 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  forever  is currently offline forever
Messages: 71
Registered: May 2006
Location: Tooradin
Level 4
Makes me very sad and angry.

Yet humans can continue to torture and get away with it.

Unfortunately it's a political game.
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2677938 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Sat, 16 June 2012 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Wings  is currently offline Wings  
Messages: 5249
Registered: November 2008
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Media release from the AVA
http://www.ava.com.au/mediarelease/pet-dogs-fall-victim-vict orian-legislation


"There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it."
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2677960 is a reply to message #2677862 ] Sat, 16 June 2012 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  hippypippa  is currently offline hippypippa  
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clydesdalelover wrote on Sat, 16 June 2012 09:30

That bloke needs glasses, these dogs look nothing like a pit bull, my friend has a mastiff and they look like his dog, I feel very sorry for the owner.

Agree. These dogs look nothing like the pictures that they put up for identification. I hope the owner is able to take it further to stop it happening to other dogs and owners.
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678264 is a reply to message #2677960 ] Sat, 16 June 2012 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  honeyjoy  
Messages: 12317
Registered: July 2007
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
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Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678321 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Sat, 16 June 2012 21:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  RealityBites  is currently offline RealityBites  
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Crying or Very Sad so very sad, poor puppies! I had a purebred main registered BRINDLE bullmastiff when I had my shepherds, and the local ranger put him down as a pit bull cross! Shocked He was 73 Kgs and looked like a Bullmastiff! I had to take all his paperwork in with breeders ph number etc to prove his breeding. At the time I thought it was hilarious, but now it just scares me that people in power honestly have no idea what they are looking at.......


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Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678337 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Sat, 16 June 2012 21:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  merlot  is currently offline merlot  
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I am so glad I have two poodles and a Great Dane, all registered. There is no way I would risk having a crossbreed dog, especially one that had any resemblance at all to a Pit Bull. Although in the case of these two dogs, they looked nothing like a pit bull Sad
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678380 is a reply to message #2678337 ] Sat, 16 June 2012 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Black_Destrier  is currently offline Black_Destrier  
Messages: 247
Registered: May 2008
Level 2
Sad ending for these two dogs Sad

Sadly I don't think it will be the last story like this that we hear/read about.

I am far from an expert but neither dog looked pit bull to me, some people think they know breeds by just looking at them, but visual observation is not always correct.
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678386 is a reply to message #2678337 ] Sat, 16 June 2012 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  MissMaddy  
Messages: 2776
Registered: August 2006
Location: hopefully one later this ...
Troppo. Loco. Round the twist.
The scariest part of this law though, is that the only breed that can be exempt is an am staff with papers. So if they really wanted to destroy your say mastiff or ridgeback with papers, labelling it as a pit bull type, bad luck, the loop hole in the law says they can unless it's an amstaff with papers. This is why I don't understand anyone breeding our buying an unregistered bull breed of any type right now, too much potential for heartache. This law gives rangers ridiculous good-like powers, and I have also heard of some rangers picking a lab as a Pitty from pics. A lot have no idea what they're looking at, as this case has demonstrated.
They're targeting all staffy, mastiff and am staff registered dogs or a cross of these breeds if not registered with the ANKC. Oh, and also trading post and gum tree ads of these breeds.
To make matters even worse, though, it is believed some councils will allow pit bulls and crosses if they were correctly registered the first year, but then won't register them at all next year, then allowing them to destroy them for being unregistered pit bulls.
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678450 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Sun, 17 June 2012 07:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Evil  
Messages: 1648
Registered: October 2007
Location: tooborac
Completely Insane
Yes unfortunately so many people in power are quite clueless especially the council types I have come across who work as rangers, I have found many of them to be quite vindictive, heartless and callous. Those two dogs did not look like pitbulls at all. RIP poor innocent dogs.
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678503 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Sun, 17 June 2012 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  FruitOfEquivarna  is currently offline FruitOfEquivarna  
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This makes me worry for my sisters dog, who is a staffy x but looks quite pittbullish. She is registered with the council as eng staff x am staff but in light of these new laws my sister has talked about having her DNA tested as a back up, just in case.
Problem is, she's worried it could backfire. So does anyone know if a DNA test comes back positive with Pitbull heritage, are the vets or laboratory obliged to report it?
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678506 is a reply to message #2678503 ] Sun, 17 June 2012 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Wings  is currently offline Wings  
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FruitOfEquivarna wrote on Sun, 17 June 2012 09:42

This makes me worry for my sisters dog, who is a staffy x but looks quite pittbullish. She is registered with the council as eng staff x am staff but in light of these new laws my sister has talked about having her DNA tested as a back up, just in case.
Problem is, she's worried it could backfire. So does anyone know if a DNA test comes back positive with Pitbull heritage, are the vets or laboratory obliged to report it?


They aren't accepting the DNA as evidence anyway so probably not worth the risk.


"There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it."
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678535 is a reply to message #2678503 ] Sun, 17 June 2012 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  djrayment  
Messages: 3910
Registered: May 2009
Step away from the computer,
FruitOfEquivarna wrote on Sun, 17 June 2012 09:42

This makes me worry for my sisters dog, who is a staffy x but looks quite pittbullish. She is registered with the council as eng staff x am staff but in light of these new laws my sister has talked about having her DNA tested as a back up, just in case.
Problem is, she's worried it could backfire. So does anyone know if a DNA test comes back positive with Pitbull heritage, are the vets or laboratory obliged to report it?


I don't think they are required to report it but it won't do anything anyway because (as Miss Mady aready explained in more detail above) the law is written to allow AMOs to have the entire say based on the dogs appearance, with the only exception being ANKC registration as an AmStaf.
I've also known a number of dogs that looked NOTHING like a pit (and by nothing I mean NOTHING - closer to a Greyhound X than anything else) come back as having X amount Pit 'genetic heritage' - DNA testing is not conclusive because most of these breeds have not been distinct breeds long enough to throw up a significantly different profile (especially as crosses).

There was actually a case in QLD last year or late the year before where the owner won because the council couldn't prove that his unregistered AmStaf WAS a pitbull because the genetics of the two breeds are identical and they are still dual registerable in the USA - basically the judge said APBTs and AmStafs are the same breed for all intents and purposes, so because the council allowed AmStafs they had to allow any dog reported by the owner as an AmStaf to live regardless. Because the ANKC won't allow the gov to ban AmStafs (it'd be a brave/stupid government that tried), Ted's solution was to allow only ANKC registered dogs and ban everything else based on it's looks. The ANKC won't argue with this at all because most of them are pure breed dog enthusiasts (although they are still worried about the ban being applied to other breeds as has been tried in the past and happens in other countries).


The most stupid thing about this, is that if you breed a 'pure' pit (if there is still such a thing in this country) with a heeler, any offspring with a merle coat are safe while any offspring that have solid coats would likely be up for PTS. Same goes for pure white dogs etc. The stupid bastards actually put a picture of a staffy in the standard (have a look at Figure 3!) - I won't even comment on the 'tail standard' then to say W...t...F....!. http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/pets/about-pets/legislation-and-re gulation/standard-for-restricted-breed-dogs

I was the same as Merlot in the beginning, thinking that the laws would be pretty useless, especially after seeing the QLD results. I then got an education in how truly incompetant and driven by the media this government is, when I got a lady from DPI who is involved with the development of animal related laws (pretty high up in the chain too) to talk to my class, she even told us of how the decision was made, being basically that some idiot from the H/Sun put Peter on the spot during a press conference and he gave a hot headed statement about killing any dog that looks like a pitbull becaue the public is afraid of dogs that look like pitbulls and thy refused to go back on their 'word' after that - very disillusioned and really angry by the end of that day. I then spoke with a few other people in the industry that I know who are normally consulted for things like this - even with the tiny amount of notice they were given to prepare, every one of them advised against it and even presented evidence that it has never worked and is currently being repealed in about a dozen Euro countries AND drew attention to successful campaigns and legislations aimed at reducing dog bites - Gov ignored everyone Twisted Evil

I used to doubt that they would ever ban other breeds (Rotts, Dobes etc.) but not anymore, just look at comments like that ignoramus 'Irene' on here, the same sentiment gets put forward in every comments section on every newspaper article and it just fuels the stupidity - god help them the day they come to take my dog as someone will get badly hurt and the dog will be safely locked away in his kennel while it happens Twisted Evil
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678557 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Sun, 17 June 2012 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Wings  is currently offline Wings  
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Very well said djrayment.


"There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it."
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678565 is a reply to message #2678557 ] Sun, 17 June 2012 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  honeyjoy  
Messages: 12317
Registered: July 2007
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
with the non-qualified AMO they have in most shires, it is now wonder that even Maltese will soon be mistaken for APBT Surprised


I wanted to hit one on the head the other day when he told a client that the reason his working dog breed was escaping was purely because he exercised it each day, the simple solution being that if he stopped walking the dog, then the dog wouldn't stray.

I fired up completely and went off at him, and his very unqualified opinions, compared to my qualified opinions ( I suggested enrichment, exercise and training with separation anxiety problems would make a big difference to this dog) and was told he had owned dogs all his life and he knew everything about them. I was going to reply I know I have a brain, but that doesn't make me a brain surgeon!

This is the same AMO that also told us he had a baby Foxhound- was a lemon Beagle aged 3+ years; that to catch a stray horse you just chase it around on the road for a bit, then it will stop and come right up to you Rolls Eyes plus other things.....he also lost one of his own dogs due to it continually roaming....he had to surrender it...

what chance do we have indeed!
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678594 is a reply to message #2678565 ] Sun, 17 June 2012 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  djrayment  
Messages: 3910
Registered: May 2009
Step away from the computer,
honeyjoy wrote on Sun, 17 June 2012 11:18

with the non-qualified AMO they have in most shires, it is now wonder that even Maltese will soon be mistaken for APBT Surprised


I wanted to hit one on the head the other day when he told a client that the reason his working dog breed was escaping was purely because he exercised it each day, the simple solution being that if he stopped walking the dog, then the dog wouldn't stray.

I fired up completely and went off at him, and his very unqualified opinions, compared to my qualified opinions ( I suggested enrichment, exercise and training with separation anxiety problems would make a big difference to this dog) and was told he had owned dogs all his life and he knew everything about them. I was going to reply I know I have a brain, but that doesn't make me a brain surgeon!

This is the same AMO that also told us he had a baby Foxhound- was a lemon Beagle aged 3+ years; that to catch a stray horse you just chase it around on the road for a bit, then it will stop and come right up to you Rolls Eyes plus other things.....he also lost one of his own dogs due to it continually roaming....he had to surrender it...

what chance do we have indeed!


Wow Confused and I thought that multiple AMOs thinking that Dobes were just underfed Rotts was the epitomy of studipity...
index.php?t=getfile&id=515036&private=0

Re: The BSL have struck [message #2678597 is a reply to message #2678594 ] Sun, 17 June 2012 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  honeyjoy  
Messages: 12317
Registered: July 2007
The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Give them a uniform, cages and a catching pole and it goes to their tiny undertrained minds Confused
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2679306 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Mon, 18 June 2012 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  bayview  
Messages: 10141
Registered: February 2008
Out of my way, I am in the midst of a hoo haa monologue
BSL isn't working - it's just made pit bulls more 'attractive' to the dropkicks... I know of 3 definite pit bulls in town being passed off as am staffs.. 2 of those born AFTER the BSL came into effect... The only reason they GOT the pups - for the attention it brings...




"I'm not Heartless, I just view the world different to you..."

"The foxes we shoot, save the wildlife you love"
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2679372 is a reply to message #2679306 ] Mon, 18 June 2012 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  emasculator  
Messages: 2059
Registered: March 2010
Stark, Raving Bonkers
Living in a completely rural area, I wonder how this law is going to work.
The dogs in our area are essentially farm dogs or hunting dogs.
Some of the hunting dogs are crossed with so many breeds, it's impossible to categorise them with any accuracy.
A lady I ran into at my vet had just come home fromm work to find her staffy had been seized by the council.
She was devastated, and struggling to find a vet willing to sign paperwork, agreeing that the dog was not a pitbull type.
The vets are reluctant to sign their name, in case of backlash if the dog does attack someone, and the whole thing really is a big mess. Evil or Very Mad
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2679496 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Mon, 18 June 2012 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Dressage_Pony  
Messages: 416
Registered: April 2011
Level 1
Does this law exist in NSW??? Wow I am shocked this is happening... and if it does exist in NSW, worried for my little guy who has the sweetest nature but is a staffy x. Disgusting, I feel for these dogs and their owners Sad
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2679571 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Mon, 18 June 2012 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  djrayment  
Messages: 3910
Registered: May 2009
Step away from the computer,
Emasculator - depends entirely on your local AMOs, as the it is based soley on the appearance of the dog. We actually asked Tracy when she was out, what would happen if you could conclusively prove that your dog was the offspring of two ANKC registered dogs of other breeds (say an AmStaf and a boxer) and was told in no uncertain terms that it means nothing. I'm pretty sure they'd have trouble trying to push an ANKC registered dog of ANY breed as a APBT, but unregistered offspring are completely 'fair game'.
Also, don't quote me because I don't have the fowchart with me to look at, but I'm 90% certain they can't seize an animal from a residential property when no one is home. I've got the notes from the DPI training day (gotta love friends in high places) and I was shocked that they were given so much power but don't remember them being able to do that - that would essentailly give them more power than inspectors have under POCTA. If that is the case with this lady (bearing in mind they will probably argue that the dog was roaming and it would be up to her to prove it wasn't), she needs to get onto it quick smart and kick their arses HARD... though it probably answers your questions about the AMOs in your area Evil or Very Mad

DP - I don't think it's been brought in in NSW. As far as I know they aren't even planning on bringing it in because someone there actually asked (shock horror) and was told it doesn't work... which makes a change for NSW because they are pretty crap at everything else Surprised
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2679574 is a reply to message #2677647 ] Mon, 18 June 2012 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  bayview  
Messages: 10141
Registered: February 2008
Out of my way, I am in the midst of a hoo haa monologue
http://www.standard.net.au/news/local/news/general/plea-to-s ave-portland-dog-on-death-row/2593215.aspx


"I'm not Heartless, I just view the world different to you..."

"The foxes we shoot, save the wildlife you love"
Re: The BSL have struck [message #2679644 is a reply to message #2679574 ] Mon, 18 June 2012 15:27 Go to previous message
  djrayment  
Messages: 3910
Registered: May 2009
Step away from the computer,
bayview wrote on Mon, 18 June 2012 14:09

http://www.standard.net.au/news/local/news/general/plea-to-s ave-portland-dog-on-death-row/2593215.aspx



This dog is being PTS'd under a different (related) law that's been in place since 2005. The owner has surrendered it and therefore signed over any right she had to decide what happened to the dog (which is then decided by the person/people running the pound NOT the AMO).

Under the new laws, if the dog was found wandering by the ranger (AMO) and was identified as a 'pitbull like dog', he could have seized it and euth'd it within a matter of days had he felt like it because she's done the wrong thing repeatedly and the dog wasn't registered. If the dog was reported (by anyone) as presenting a danger whilst wandering, then it changes to 24 hours before it can legally be PTS'd. On first appearance I'd say the ranger is this case is acting quite reasonably (unlike the paper that reported the whole thing and used that ridioculous picture Rolls Eyes ) - had she done the right thing in the first place, we'd never have heard anything about it.
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