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Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2715766] Sat, 04 August 2012 09:12 Go to next message
  Equivarna  
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The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
About 12 months ago I was given information on getting a mineral supplement made based on an actual soil analysis, but I can't find the information now. Anyone?


If a man says something in the forest, and no woman is there to hear him; is he still wrong?
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2715816 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Sat, 04 August 2012 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  FCEH  
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I use Alyssa Brugman from Sound Advice Horse Health.

She arranged my analysis and also makes up my mineral blend.

Her costs are very reasonable and the service is very good.

I can also buy various raw supplements for specific horses at good prices.

www.soundadvicehorsehealth.com.au
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2715900 is a reply to message #2715816 ] Sat, 04 August 2012 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  suew1001  
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Check out the ads by Equima on VH. Zoe does exactly what you're looking for. Smile


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Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2715971 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Sat, 04 August 2012 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Equivarna  
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The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Thanks. Smile


If a man says something in the forest, and no woman is there to hear him; is he still wrong?
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2716302 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Sat, 04 August 2012 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  bizzibizzigirl  is currently offline bizzibizzigirl  
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www.balancedequine.com.au

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Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2716332 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Sat, 04 August 2012 23:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  happyhacks  is currently offline happyhacks  
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Step away from the computer,

I second what FCEH said ...leaves others for dead....


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Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2716382 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Sun, 05 August 2012 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Equivarna  
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The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
I've contacted both at this stage, and will probably make a decision after a closer look at actual quantities of individual components, but it's an eye opening process, once you actually start looking at what is in some of the big brand name supplements. (Thanks to FTD for putting me onto one that at least doesn't contain iron).

Most of the mainstream brands, contain significant amounts of iron and manganese, despite the fact that fodder from south east Australia at least, is rich in these minerals. Allowing that an excess of these two minerals blocks the uptake of copper and zinc, it is quite possible, even likely, that a significant component of the expensive mineral supplement you are feeding, is in fact cancelling itself out and could even be doing more harm than good.

Our primary goal at this point is to correct the imbalances in the soil, so we haven't done a plant tissue analysis, which would give a more precise picture of mineral imbalance in the pasture than the soil test we have had done, so we are fudging it a bit. Hopefully in 12 months when some of the issues have been addressed it will be worth doing that and we can gain an accurate indication of what we need to be supplementing with.

Given that a plant tissue analysis costs less than 3 months of supplements, I think anyone would be mad to not get it done.

[Updated on: Sun, 05 August 2012 08:46]


If a man says something in the forest, and no woman is there to hear him; is he still wrong?
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2716383 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Sun, 05 August 2012 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
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The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Exactly, Ive sent my winter pasture analysis away to the US only this week...

Will top off the 4 seasons and show any seasonal changes that need addressing.

For $26 plus postage...its crazy not to have a crack at a more precise way of formulating diets

Are you using the US company Phil? Because I had a hard time finding an Australian one to do the plant tissue analysis, only soil testing seems available

[Updated on: Sun, 05 August 2012 08:52]

Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2716457 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Sun, 05 August 2012 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  FCEH  
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The USA company that Alyssa used for me had the results back very quickly and it's as cheap as chips ($30)

I had pasture and 2 lots of hay tested. - $90.
Same cost as 1 tub of Cell Vital!


Biggest eye opener for us was the very high calcium in our grass and in the hay that was purchased from a farm around the corner.
I'd been feeding a calcium supp for years! What a waste AND potentially negative side effects.

I now get a bulk amount of mineral blend with everything I want in it. Alyssa will chuck in extra of anything your particular horses need - eg I give yea sacc as well (probiotic).

Plus she'll blend in something for ulcer prone horses too.

I'm saving money AND the horses are looking terrific.

The diet change she helped me arrange is also perfectly balanced and again, quite a big dollar saving.

Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2716838 is a reply to message #2716383 ] Sun, 05 August 2012 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Equivarna  
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The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
I used SWEP for the soil test and I know they do plant tissue, but I suspect they charge more than that also,whoever you buy your mineral mix will probably prefer you use a specified tester for consistency


If a man says something in the forest, and no woman is there to hear him; is he still wrong?
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2716947 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Mon, 06 August 2012 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  mbqh  is currently offline mbqh  
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Groucho, Feed Test in Hamilton, Vic do all plant analysis, I use them twice a year myself. Much more expensive than the US one for full analysis, but I prefer it because I can not fathom how the process you have to follow to send it to the US doesn't alter the nutritional levels in fresh grass.

Here is the link to Feed Test. http://www.feedtest.com.au/

Soil testing is good for assisting with the grasses you are wanting to grow, but your horse doesn't eat soil, so make sure you get the pasture tested.
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2716954 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Mon, 06 August 2012 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Groucho  
Messages: 21562
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The forum drove me to drink. Remind me to thank it.
Its weird, some of the sample information says to microwave the grass, which my first thought would have been destruction of nutrients

The other says to freeze it, which makes more sense to lock the nutrients in.

I froze my samples before sending...sure they wont be frozen by the time they reach the US

Thats great I might use the Australian company next time Smile
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #2716959 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Mon, 06 August 2012 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  mbqh  is currently offline mbqh  
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Yeah, Feed Test want you to send it on a Monday so no chance of weekends etc, and are pretty adament they want it as fast as possible. Freezing is definitely better than microwaving!
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113052 is a reply to message #2716959 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  PanAllegra  
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Step away from the computer,

Just bumping up an old thread to see if the advice is similar. Very Happy


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Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113062 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Hacker  
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My only add on is that to base a specialized supplimemt mix on a soil test is something most nutritionists won't do, as it's a waste of time. Soil tests will give you the information you need to correct imbalances in the soil, not the animal.

And even if it's cheaper to send overseas, you are losing out by the high potential for the pasture to start decaying by the time the sample hits the lab. Unless you send it in liquid nitrogen, I doubt it's getting to the lab without starting to decompose! Decomposition of grass changes the nutrient levels significantly, especially sugars. So the use of Feed Test, or a similarity 'local' lab is definitely going to give you a better idea of what your growing pasture has in it Smile
If you are only testing hay, then using the overseas labs isn't such a problem.
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113064 is a reply to message #3113062 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  PanAllegra  
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Registered: July 2008
Step away from the computer,
Hacker wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 18:28

My only add on is that to base a specialized supplimemt mix on a soil test is something most nutritionists won't do, as it's a waste of time. Soil tests will give you the information you need to correct imbalances in the soil, not the animal.

And even if it's cheaper to send overseas, you are losing out by the high potential for the pasture to start decaying by the time the sample hits the lab. Unless you send it in liquid nitrogen, I doubt it's getting to the lab without starting to decompose! Decomposition of grass changes the nutrient levels significantly, especially sugars. So the use of Feed Test, or a similarity 'local' lab is definitely going to give you a better idea of what your growing pasture has in it Smile
If you are only testing hay, then using the overseas labs isn't such a problem.


Thanks Hacker! Very Happy. Will use the local testing facility then.

Do you know if you need to retest at different times of the year?


Peppercorn Abbott (Pepper)(1987-2012) Le Roi est mort, vive le Roi!
Peppercorn Valley Penny Lane (Penny)
Fenwick Alexander (Alex)
Peppercorn Valley Albert (Albie) (Vale)
Peppercorn Valley Minka (Minky)
Manetheren Aslan (Legs)
Bromhund Flint (Flynn)
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113079 is a reply to message #3113064 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  JosiieBrnz  is currently offline JosiieBrnz  
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PanAllegra wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 18:31

Hacker wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 18:28

My only add on is that to base a specialized supplimemt mix on a soil test is something most nutritionists won't do, as it's a waste of time. Soil tests will give you the information you need to correct imbalances in the soil, not the animal.

And even if it's cheaper to send overseas, you are losing out by the high potential for the pasture to start decaying by the time the sample hits the lab. Unless you send it in liquid nitrogen, I doubt it's getting to the lab without starting to decompose! Decomposition of grass changes the nutrient levels significantly, especially sugars. So the use of Feed Test, or a similarity 'local' lab is definitely going to give you a better idea of what your growing pasture has in it Smile
If you are only testing hay, then using the overseas labs isn't such a problem.


Thanks Hacker! Very Happy. Will use the local testing facility then.

Do you know if you need to retest at different times of the year?


Curious about that too? Wouldn't the sugars and nutrients change from when it's brown and dry in summer compared to green and lush in spring?


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Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113087 is a reply to message #3113079 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Hacker  
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JosiieBrnz wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 18:55

PanAllegra wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 18:31

Hacker wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 18:28

My only add on is that to base a specialized supplimemt mix on a soil test is something most nutritionists won't do, as it's a waste of time. Soil tests will give you the information you need to correct imbalances in the soil, not the animal.

And even if it's cheaper to send overseas, you are losing out by the high potential for the pasture to start decaying by the time the sample hits the lab. Unless you send it in liquid nitrogen, I doubt it's getting to the lab without starting to decompose! Decomposition of grass changes the nutrient levels significantly, especially sugars. So the use of Feed Test, or a similarity 'local' lab is definitely going to give you a better idea of what your growing pasture has in it Smile
If you are only testing hay, then using the overseas labs isn't such a problem.


Thanks Hacker! Very Happy. Will use the local testing facility then.

Do you know if you need to retest at different times of the year?


Curious about that too? Wouldn't the sugars and nutrients change from when it's brown and dry in summer compared to green and lush in spring?


Yes, it does change.
Sometimes significantly, sometimes hardly at all depending on where you are. Best to get them done after the change of season, we usually say about 2-3 weeks into the 'season' ideally over 5 years but one tears of tests can give you some great information Smile
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113164 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Liminal  is currently offline Liminal  
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I've been wanting to get this done, too, for ages, and haven't got my butt into gear. I have a dehydrator at home - I was planning on using that - would it preserve the basic nutrient levels or destroy too much?

In the meantime, you could try Ann Nyland's "Sera's Fix" supplements. They're made for generic Australian conditions (high iron, low zinc/magnesium), contain no iron, and do have a balance of decent stuff. I had my horse on Pryde's 300, and when I swapped to SF Essentials, he looked heaps better, and his hoof quality has really improved (been giving it for 4 months now and the difference in the regrowth is very visible). I'd prefer a custom mix but this has been a good, iron-free supplement so far.

http://www.serasfix.com.au/
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113172 is a reply to message #3113164 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Hacker  
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Liminal wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 21:06

I've been wanting to get this done, too, for ages, and haven't got my butt into gear. I have a dehydrator at home - I was planning on using that - would it preserve the basic nutrient levels or destroy too much?

In the meantime, you could try Ann Nyland's "Sera's Fix" supplements. They're made for generic Australian conditions (high iron, low zinc/magnesium), contain no iron, and do have a balance of decent stuff. I had my horse on Pryde's 300, and when I swapped to SF Essentials, he looked heaps better, and his hoof quality has really improved (been giving it for 4 months now and the difference in the regrowth is very visible). I'd prefer a custom mix but this has been a good, iron-free supplement so far.

http://www.serasfix.com.au/



If you use a local lab (like Feed Test) you don't need to dehydrate, just send it in fresh.

Again, dehydrating you are changing the cellular structure of the grass, and therefore changing the nutrient levels. Anything that destroys cellulose, changes the nutrient level. That's why hay cut at different times, sileage, active grass and even lawnmower clippings have such different levels of things like digestible (and sometimes the non digestible) NSC levels.

Basically, the fresher you can get a pasture sample into the lab, the more accurate the test will be. The Feed Test lab will not process pasture older than 48 hours, even if its been in the fridge (and they can tell Embarassed) if you are doing horse sampling. With cattle they are a bit more lenient Wink
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113186 is a reply to message #3113172 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Liminal  is currently offline Liminal  
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Hacker wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 21:18

Liminal wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 21:06

I've been wanting to get this done, too, for ages, and haven't got my butt into gear. I have a dehydrator at home - I was planning on using that - would it preserve the basic nutrient levels or destroy too much?

In the meantime, you could try Ann Nyland's "Sera's Fix" supplements. They're made for generic Australian conditions (high iron, low zinc/magnesium), contain no iron, and do have a balance of decent stuff. I had my horse on Pryde's 300, and when I swapped to SF Essentials, he looked heaps better, and his hoof quality has really improved (been giving it for 4 months now and the difference in the regrowth is very visible). I'd prefer a custom mix but this has been a good, iron-free supplement so far.

http://www.serasfix.com.au/



If you use a local lab (like Feed Test) you don't need to dehydrate, just send it in fresh.

Again, dehydrating you are changing the cellular structure of the grass, and therefore changing the nutrient levels. Anything that destroys cellulose, changes the nutrient level. That's why hay cut at different times, sileage, active grass and even lawnmower clippings have such different levels of things like digestible (and sometimes the non digestible) NSC levels.

Basically, the fresher you can get a pasture sample into the lab, the more accurate the test will be. The Feed Test lab will not process pasture older than 48 hours, even if its been in the fridge (and they can tell Embarassed) if you are doing horse sampling. With cattle they are a bit more lenient Wink


Ah, that clears things up. Thank you! I'll go with that, then. It's not as horrifyingly extra-expensive as I was fearing.Smile
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113191 is a reply to message #3113186 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 21:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Hacker  
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Liminal wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 21:25

Hacker wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 21:18

Liminal wrote on Fri, 17 January 2014 21:06

I've been wanting to get this done, too, for ages, and haven't got my butt into gear. I have a dehydrator at home - I was planning on using that - would it preserve the basic nutrient levels or destroy too much?

In the meantime, you could try Ann Nyland's "Sera's Fix" supplements. They're made for generic Australian conditions (high iron, low zinc/magnesium), contain no iron, and do have a balance of decent stuff. I had my horse on Pryde's 300, and when I swapped to SF Essentials, he looked heaps better, and his hoof quality has really improved (been giving it for 4 months now and the difference in the regrowth is very visible). I'd prefer a custom mix but this has been a good, iron-free supplement so far.

http://www.serasfix.com.au/



If you use a local lab (like Feed Test) you don't need to dehydrate, just send it in fresh.

Again, dehydrating you are changing the cellular structure of the grass, and therefore changing the nutrient levels. Anything that destroys cellulose, changes the nutrient level. That's why hay cut at different times, sileage, active grass and even lawnmower clippings have such different levels of things like digestible (and sometimes the non digestible) NSC levels.

Basically, the fresher you can get a pasture sample into the lab, the more accurate the test will be. The Feed Test lab will not process pasture older than 48 hours, even if its been in the fridge (and they can tell Embarassed) if you are doing horse sampling. With cattle they are a bit more lenient Wink


Ah, that clears things up. Thank you! I'll go with that, then. It's not as horrifyingly extra-expensive as I was fearing.Smile


Its not, especially when you get a fool proof report with the results, showing you the levels you have alongside the recommended levels. At least I think they do that with horses too, I only use it for cattle!
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113205 is a reply to message #2715900 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  cheveauxpark  
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suew1001 wrote on Sat, 04 August 2012 12:10

Check out the ads by Equima on VH. Zoe does exactly what you're looking for. Smile


Zoe's grouse..very helpful indeed!! Smile


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Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113234 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Fri, 17 January 2014 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  bizzibizzigirl  is currently offline bizzibizzigirl  
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Do FeedTest test for ESC + starch? Does anyone know? It doesn't look like it from their website. I'm most concerned with that. Smile


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Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113313 is a reply to message #2715766 ] Sat, 18 January 2014 00:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  FCEH  
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Whilst I found it extremely helpful to have pasture and hays tested and a custom blend made to suit, it's important to not get too bogged down in it all. Grass changes during the year, hay is cut and baled at different times, some horses graze more than others, some horses only graze lawn areas of their paddocks and others like to browse on the tops of drier grasses and some have a healthy appetite for any overhanging tree branches!
Getting it pretty right is great and will give your horse the best chance at optimum health but there has to be a little bit of room for error or you'd go nuts adjusting things ....
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113353 is a reply to message #3113313 ] Sat, 18 January 2014 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Follyfoot  is currently offline Follyfoot  
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FCEH wrote on Sat, 18 January 2014 00:32

Whilst I found it extremely helpful to have pasture and hays tested and a custom blend made to suit, it's important to not get too bogged down in it all. Grass changes during the year, hay is cut and baled at different times, some horses graze more than others, some horses only graze lawn areas of their paddocks and others like to browse on the tops of drier grasses and some have a healthy appetite for any overhanging tree branches!
Getting it pretty right is great and will give your horse the best chance at optimum health but there has to be a little bit of room for error or you'd go nuts adjusting things ....



Thumbs Up

Basically if they look good, have good hooves and coat, you can assume all’s well.

If people (in general...) spent as much time and effort on their own diets, obesity should become extinct Laughing
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113386 is a reply to message #3113353 ] Sat, 18 January 2014 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Hacker  
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Follyfoot wrote on Sat, 18 January 2014 08:37

FCEH wrote on Sat, 18 January 2014 00:32

Whilst I found it extremely helpful to have pasture and hays tested and a custom blend made to suit, it's important to not get too bogged down in it all. Grass changes during the year, hay is cut and baled at different times, some horses graze more than others, some horses only graze lawn areas of their paddocks and others like to browse on the tops of drier grasses and some have a healthy appetite for any overhanging tree branches!
Getting it pretty right is great and will give your horse the best chance at optimum health but there has to be a little bit of room for error or you'd go nuts adjusting things ....



Thumbs Up

Basically if they look good, have good hooves and coat, you can assume all’s well.

If people (in general...) spent as much time and effort on their own diets, obesity should become extinct Laughing



I would assume the OP has a horse with a condition that requires a particular supplimemt boosted? For your average horse owner the knowledge of changes in nutrient levels can be benificial if you are feeding an all-round supplimemt and notice your horses hooves get crappy, or the coat gets crappy at a certain time of year. Just as not enough of a particular nutrient can do more harm than good, so too can too much of something.
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113504 is a reply to message #3113353 ] Sat, 18 January 2014 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  FCEH  
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Follyfoot wrote on Sat, 18 January 2014 08:37

FCEH wrote on Sat, 18 January 2014 00:32

Whilst I found it extremely helpful to have pasture and hays tested and a custom blend made to suit, it's important to not get too bogged down in it all. Grass changes during the year, hay is cut and baled at different times, some horses graze more than others, some horses only graze lawn areas of their paddocks and others like to browse on the tops of drier grasses and some have a healthy appetite for any overhanging tree branches!
Getting it pretty right is great and will give your horse the best chance at optimum health but there has to be a little bit of room for error or you'd go nuts adjusting things ....



Thumbs Up

Basically if they look good, have good hooves and coat, you can assume allís well.

If people (in general...) spent as much time and effort on their own diets, obesity should become extinct Laughing


If I spent as much time and effort on my own diet, my own conditioning work outs, my own hair, my own clothes and my own nails I'd probably look a hell of a lot better than I do Embarassed
Re: Custom mixed mineral supplement wanted [message #3113511 is a reply to message #3113504 ] Sat, 18 January 2014 14:46 Go to previous message
  Last half  is currently offline Last half  
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FCEH wrote on Sat, 18 January 2014 14:34

Follyfoot wrote on Sat, 18 January 2014 08:37

FCEH wrote on Sat, 18 January 2014 00:32

Whilst I found it extremely helpful to have pasture and hays tested and a custom blend made to suit, it's important to not get too bogged down in it all. Grass changes during the year, hay is cut and baled at different times, some horses graze more than others, some horses only graze lawn areas of their paddocks and others like to browse on the tops of drier grasses and some have a healthy appetite for any overhanging tree branches!
Getting it pretty right is great and will give your horse the best chance at optimum health but there has to be a little bit of room for error or you'd go nuts adjusting things ....



Thumbs Up

Basically if they look good, have good hooves and coat, you can assume allís well.

If people (in general...) spent as much time and effort on their own diets, obesity should become extinct Laughing


If I spent as much time and effort on my own diet, my own conditioning work outs, my own hair, my own clothes and my own nails I'd probably look a hell of a lot better than I do Embarassed


FCEH may it be some small comfort to you that you are definately not alone in that respect!!
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